0 Damage to a minion.

[DreamChaser]

Oh!

and the other times it will happen the character will be weakened. This makes weaken a good tool to increase the fear of minions.

DC

 

[Keltheos]

Bingo!

I love the mooks rules in games, but 1 HP minions kind of grates on me in 4e.

Anything that reduces damage to zero or misses a minion should keep them going.

Same thing with temp HP. If the damage exceeds the temp HP, they're gone, otherwise the temp's blown and they're back at 1 HP (from another thread)

anyone have a strong breeze?

 

[DreamChaser]

Bingo!
<snip>
anyone have a strong breeze?

Of course, the 1 HP is conceptual rather than actual. the Angels of Valor demonstrate that pretty well. The difference between the level 8 Angel (soldier) and the level 16 Angel (minion) is a +1 AC and a bit more to hit and damage (DHMBWM).

The difference is that regardless of how many HP the 8th level angel of valor actually has, by the time the DM is using him against the party at 16th level he should be a minor obstacle. Since 45 HP could take several rounds to get rid of (as could 22 or 11), 1 HP models this.

If two level 16 angels of valor were to get into a fist fight, the would (logically) treat each other as 8th level angels in terms of HP because to each other (or to the wind), they are not a relatively minor threat.

Any time I want to throw an angel of valor at the party that is a moderate (non minion threat) I can always choose the level 8 version). It is purely my choice and my convience to utilize the game provided short hand that says "this creature is not supposed to last more than one attack).

DC

 

[Keltheos]

No, I get that, I'm more a fan of the redshirt monsters having a bit more survivability than one swing but less than that of a level-equivalent encounter.

Yes, I know I can drop in an encounter of a lower level, but rather than it being a simple 1-hit/1-kill attack I prefer it keying off critical hits or maximum damage on a damage roll or something a bit less predictable than 1 hit.

Will I go back and retool how 4e handles minions? Probably not, just one of the things I'm not crazy about...

 

[LowSpine]

I think it was worded as any damage kills a minion. and the min 1 damage rule was abolished. So minion might not die in these rare cases.

Where does it say min damage 1 has been abolished. Through every single edition this has been the rule (the logic being that hit means damage - that simple.)

Just because it doesn't say it doesn't mean it has been abolished (just like the other 2/3s of D&D they left out of the books.)

The only way a hit would equal 0 damage, even with the min 1, is through damage type resistance. Roll 4 fire damage against a 5 fire resistant creature and you haven't dealt damage as far as I can see. In that case no damage to minion = no death.

 

[pawsplay]

Hey! Zero is an amount!

I heard it on Sesame Street!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

i think that an attack that does damage requires a minimum 1 point, but thats based off 3.5 assumptions.

 

[GoLu]

Where does it say min damage 1 has been abolished.

It doesn't. The min 1 damage rule just happens to not show up anywhere in this edition.

That said, check out page 58 of the PHB. There is a reminder that half 1 is 0 (because you round down). Now, you could make the case that this is because it's a miss result. But the thing is worded as a reminder of a general rule rather than as a subsection on the rules for missing. That makes a decent case that you can do 0 damage, although honestly doesn't say for certain one way or another.

 

[Spatula]

Where does it say min damage 1 has been abolished. Through every single edition this has been the rule (the logic being that hit means damage - that simple.)

And in those editions it appeared in the books. Now it doesn't, so it's not a rule (for the moment, barring future errata).