D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[Piratecat]

I've deleted sckeener's original post. No more discussion of it please, folks. Let's get the thread back on track.

 

[sckeener]

Though, IMO, "in context" it's not much better. Fantasy literature is [the vast majority of the time] a far different animal than those fantasies.

I wouldn't poo poo that industry so fast.

• it is sold in most places that books are sold.
• it is not hidden behind counters or come in black plastic covers
• it made $1.37 Billion in 2006 compared to Sci-fi/Fantasy's $495 million
• Anne Rice (nut that I think she is) got her start there and is infamous for her Sleeping Beauty trilogy...which I've known more women to read than men.

The chief problem and why I think WotC steers clear of the topic...it all comes down to the storyteller...easier to focus on the mechanics..the more boyish aspects of the game...

Paizo I think could tap that market. Their pathfinder series is proof enough. Their storytelling is superb and they are willing to take a risk....

but it still all comes down to the DM. A bad DM even with a good story could ruin it...hence why wotc is playing safe with half-orcs...

 

[Doug McCrae]

1. Human males will have sex with absolutely anything.

2. Half-races are pointless unless the non-human half is something really exotic such as a dragon. Stop pussy-footing about and make Spock a full Vulcan like he was supposed to be.

 

[frankthedm]

Half-races are pointless unless the non-human half is something really exotic such as a dragon. Stop pussy-footing about and make Spock a full Vulcan like he was supposed to be.

Leave pussyfoot out of this

 

[Pale Jackal]

I wouldn't poo poo that industry so fast.

• it is sold in most places that books are sold.
• it is not hidden behind counters or come in black plastic covers
• it made $1.37 Billion in 2006 compared to Sci-fi/Fantasy's $495 million
• Anne Rice (nut that I think she is) got her start there and is infamous for her Sleeping Beauty trilogy...which I've known more women to read than men.

The chief problem and why I think WotC steers clear of the topic...it all comes down to the storyteller...easier to focus on the mechanics..the more boyish aspects of the game...

Paizo I think could tap that market. Their pathfinder series is proof enough. Their storytelling is superb and they are willing to take a risk....

but it still all comes down to the DM. A bad DM even with a good story could ruin it...hence why wotc is playing safe with half-orcs...

And my point was: are you playing D&D or any other RPG to indulge your sexual fantasies? For most people, that's a definite "no."

"Tap that market" ... we're still taking about the same subject, right? What are you thinking? If I blind-bought a module where rape was plot-central, I'm not sure I'd run it, even if the story was amazing. If you can make a good product involving rape, you can make a good product without rape.

Yeah, WotC is playing it safe. I think it's probably the smart move. As I said before, if half-orcs were popular, they'd stay [and I'd be fine with that], but since they're not and they introduce a rather unpalatable aspect, well, good riddance.

 

[zaphyre]

I would be amused if someone came up with the story of the romance between an Orc Barbarian-woman let's say Glendaerra who rescues a hapless human male (maybe he's a wizard or rogue) named let's say Hurmid from a bunch of evil cultist. And at first Hurmid is grateful he's been rescued by this Orc woman, but reluctant about her. Turns out she's a mercenary looking to do things right, and slowly they grow on each other as a couple. The inevitable result is that Glendaerra the Orc gets pregnant.

... Now that sounds like a fun story.

I don't agree with WotC's changing of the half-orc backgrounds. I'd rather they *not* explain their origin & let the player's be creative. You don't want the negative flavor in the game? Then come up with something - like was suggested in the original article.

Why go to all the trouble of stating that all half-orcs come from some historic past event? Personally, I'd hate to have a character's back-story pulled out from underneath me. I'd rather they just leave it unstated and let the players and DMs decide how the half-orc was created.

I hate to say it, but it really feels like WotC is migrating toward "Rated G" games -- no matter what the age or maturity of the people playing them.

 

[qstor]

I just have a harder time believing that an entire race is spawned from rape. It's just... Really?

I might have missed it in this thread but 1/2 orcs are based on the Uruk-hai in the LOTR.
Thus from wizardly cross breeding and NOT rape.

Mike

 

[buzz]

D&D is not a horror game about addressing hard-hitting moral questions or deep, adult, introspection. D&D is a game about heroic adventure fantasy in a world that's morally mostly black and white, and it's aimed at a fairly wide age demographic. I.e., D&D != V:tM. Ergo, it should come as no surprise that WotC would want to reexamine and tread carefully regarding existing canon/preconception that brings up genuinely disturbing subject matter. Were D&D that aforementioned adult, gritty, horrific game, then yes, I'd expect them to not shy away from difficult subjects. But D&D just isn't that game.

WotC is obviously not eliminating half-orcs. If they want to come up with a new way of presenting them that fits better with their design goals and what they feel their core audience will find enjoyable (much like the gnome), or simply present them in a context that does include the disturbing aspects, but does so outside of the core rules, then that's cool with me.

 

[buzz]

I might have missed it in this thread but 1/2 orcs are based on the Uruk-hai in the LOTR.

This has never been the explanation for half-orcs in D&D. That's party why they were removed in 2e, i.e., for the raising the same issues we're discussing right now.

Remember, it was WotC that put them back in.

 

[IanB]

I might have missed it in this thread but 1/2 orcs are based on the Uruk-hai in the LOTR.
Thus from wizardly cross breeding and NOT rape.

Mike

They're not based on the uruk-hai from LoTR; they're based on the half-orcs from LoTR. If I had my trilogy handy I'd provide a quote, but they're quite different.