D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[Fallen Seraph]

Well with the more Faeish-atmosphere of 4e Elves I could very well see some Fae-Folk trick Humans into having a child (for whatever bizarre, inhuman reason it has) with a Fae and have the child mechanically be a Half-Elf.

 

[IanB]

Not to mention the hypocrisy of "half-orcs ugly backstory" vs. "tieflings ugly backstory". Yeah, 'cause all of the ancestors of those "descended from fiendish ancestry" were loving couples.

Yeah, yeah...I know. Having a fiendish ancestor in the family tree makes you kewl and gives you phat powrz...

I'm pretty sure that's part of why the tiefling backstory has *changed* in 4E.

 

[frankthedm]

Why do half-orcs have to be from rape. Why couldn't it be a product of love between to species. Humans might be as brutal and ugly to Elves as Orcs are to humans, but no-one claims that half-elves are the product of rape.

Because most folks can LOOK at an orc and draw IMHO the logical conclusion that the vast majority of humans would not have interest in intimate contact with them even IF they had a way to socially mingle. Hell most towns I’d envision in a fantasy setting won’t let them in the gates for routine trading so they won’t even get to much contact with the wandering prostitute table.

 

[buzz]

Yet elves lowering themselves to mating with humans (imagine what most of us would look like to beautiful,naturally graceful, semi-immortal, fae) is what?

I don't see how the two situations are in any way similar. You're comparing Liv Tyler getting it on with Viggo Mortensen to Jane Human rolling in the hay with a gorilla.

 

[Imaro]

I don't see how the two situations are in any way similar. You're comparing Liv Tyler getting it on with Viggo Mortensen to Jane Human rolling in the hay with a gorilla.

Because to them we would look, smell, act and move like clumsy gorillas...okay maybe chimpanzees.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I agree with Rich Baker on this. In my games it's typically been something you just glossed over -- and, personally, I'm not sure saying mom "preferred the half-orc equipment" is a big improvement over the rape back-story.

Frankly, I'm not sure why they just don't delete the "half-" part and keep the rest. It's already common enough to play monster or evil races and characters growing up in a normal orc community would have plenty of stories -- could go the Eberron treatment, or maybe an orc community based on Sparta, and a bunch of others.

 

[IanB]

Why not just say that Orcs sometimes rape human women? (And, of course, that human men sometimes rape Orc women...)

It made sense in terms of "fantasy genetics" and the necessary world-building, plus it provides some interesting avenues for character development.

Honestly I don't see what was wrong with the original explanation. Dark, obviously, and not suited perhaps to younger players, but I imagine most of D&D's audience is old enough...

Inappropriate for younger players, most likely, and also offensive to another segment, and on top of that, positing rape as a fact of life in the default game can definitely be seen as exclusionary to female players. Sure, it isn't quite in the same vein as Malcanthet's incubi, which are much more threatening in terms of potentially giving a DM license to have female characters actually threatened with rape, but that whole distasteful topic is actually relevant to the issue of why D&D doesn't have a larger population of female players.

I don't think it really belongs in the game for that reason alone. D&D can afford to let other games handle the subset of gamers for whom it is really important to have that in their game.

 

[buzz]

Because to them we would look, smell, act and move like clumsy gorillas...okay maybe chimpanzees.

I'm not aware of any support for this POV in an actual published product.

 

[IanB]

I'm not aware of any support for this POV in an actual published product.

Indeed, to the contrary, the 'otherworldly romance' factor of elf/human relationships is playing on a very common fantasy/folklore trope.

 

[frankthedm]

I don't see how the two situations are in any way similar. You're comparing Liv Tyler getting it on with Viggo Mortensen to Jane Human rolling in the hay with a gorilla.

The internets sadly was why it is only the "vast majority of humans would not have interest in intimate contact with them".