1 min per level spells and why they suck

[Saeviomagy]

Forget empowered, I don't see spell casters. This has gone from D&D to SCA. When the deciding factor is class abilities(and spells don't count, according to this board and WOTC), who beats the barbarian with a natural +8 to str and con, DR and hd12? Oh ,and 4 skill points per level if thats important. Are we playing D&D or Lankhmar?

The fighter with weapon spec and greater weapon spec and expertise and improved critical and...

The barbarian gives up a lot in order to get some sweet looking stats for a short period of time. How is it that you don't get that?

When the only purpose for a spellcaster is to supplant the warrior who is going to play one. This reminds me, someone stated the big bad COULD be a warrior now. No he had better be a warrior or monster, a warrior will tear a spell caster to shreds now. Or the spell caster just became the rogue, his best bet is CDG after hold monster. Which means as he leaves mid-levels he doesn't stand a chance. As has been said before no matter which class the pc's take, the DM is going to have to make excuses not to do a TPK. If its a monster there is no excuse.

This is especially true with spell casters, if there were a few nerfs it might be one thing, but they have nerfed every spell. The ones not nerfed in 3.5, were nerfed in 3.0.

Go cry. Me - I think you're outright wrong. Spellcasters will still be deadly, just like they always were.

If they ARE less combat-powerful than a warrior, good! The warrior classes are typically SOL when it comes to anything except hittin' stuff. So why shouldn't they be the best when it comes to hittin' stuff?

Warrior:"Can I hit it?"
Mage:"No. Shut up and sit still, I'm busy doing the adventure - when we've finished, you might be able to hit it"

 

[KnowTheToe]

You know, ever since they announced 3.5, I have been saying that the hour-duration buffing spells would be going bye-bye. Was it because I have some psychic power or inside knowledge? No. It was because I took one look at what people were doing with these spells and said, this is silly. For PCs to be constantly increasing their combat effectiveness for the entire day, while in no real danger while doing so, is simply boring. When you got to mid levels and higher, you would often see a group leave town with multiple-extended buffs cast the day before, so that they could also have full spells. That is ridiculous. When the big bad evil guy must be a spellcaster, so that he can match the party's always-on buffing, something's gotta change.

This on top of the high powered stats through 32 point buy that many of us use.

 

[rangerjohn]

If they ARE less combat-powerful than a warrior, good! The warrior classes are typically SOL when it comes to anything except hittin' stuff. So why shouldn't they be the best when it comes to hittin' stuff?

I hope you can clear the dungeon in 20 min. Thats the most time you have for out of combat effects

 

[ShadowX]

I think 10\min a level would be much better. Makes extend still useful and it will last for a short set of encounters. And most importantly you wont have pc's running around all day with the spells activated.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

In my group at least, I don't see players going into a "Quick! Have to get through!!" mood. They're too patient and have a habit of running out spells anyway. They'll simply adapt to this, and probably not see an effect. Though...I guess they're lucky since they've never come to rely on the spells OR stat boosting items.

 

[coyote6]

Hopefully the new CR system will be a little more accurate.

What new CR system? Has there been any statements that the CR system will be changing?

(Hmm, if they had time to change and playtest the CR system, they ought to have had time to change and playtest the metamagic system.)

Parties will spend a lot more time and effort trying to scout the enemy and then rush in with a carefully planned commando raid that will try to optimize the duration of the buff spells by hitting several close enemy positions at once and then withdraw or consolidate those gains.

AKA "Scry-buff-teleport."

 

[ruleslawyer]

Damn' straight.

I agree with you on this, though the 2nd level strenght spell did exist, though it was IIR 10 minutes to cast and only lasted one round a level [a minute pre combat and tactics]. as such it was mostly a non issue for combat use.

Nope. The 1e/2e strength spell lasted one hour per level.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Maybe true for clerics. Clerics have good hit points and a decent attack bonus to fall back on.

But definitely not for arcane casters. If wizards and sorcerors are dead weight in combat, nobody will play them. Sure, they've always been dead weight for the first few levels but there was always the promise of turning the tide of a battle with a single spell and being significant at higher levels. If that is removed from the class so that at level 17, the wizard's 9th level spell contributes about as much as a barbarian's full attack action to the battle, there won't be many wizards or sorcerors playing in 3.5e groups anymore. I don't think anyone's saying that wizards and sorcerors should be as good as fighters and barbarians in hand to hand. However, if by the time archers are dealing 70 points of damage per round (12th level or so) EVERY ROUND ALL DAY, wizard's can't do significantly better than that for one round per day, something is seriously wrong.

As people have said, if all a cleric is is a walking wand of healing, there won't be many people lining up to play them.

Similarly, if all a wizard is is a walking repertoire of Rope Tricks, Teleports and Magnificent Mansions, people will take them as cohorts but won't play them.

Anyway, the fighter is the only class that's SOL except for hitting stuff. Paladins have a good selection of social skills, detect evil, etc. Rangers have nearly as many skills as a rogue, and barbarians have quite a few skills (and plenty of wilderness stuff on their skill list).

If they ARE less combat-powerful than a warrior, good! The warrior classes are typically SOL when it comes to anything except hittin' stuff. So why shouldn't they be the best when it comes to hittin' stuff?

Warrior:"Can I hit it?"
Mage:"No. Shut up and sit still, I'm busy doing the adventure - when we've finished, you might be able to hit it"

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Isn't this the same board where people use the saying, "If everyone wants to use it, its broken."?

This is also the board where people have repeatedly pointed out that that's not accurate. Every fighter wants a magic weapon and magic armor. Every character eventually wants a +6 statboost item or two. Everybody wants to use cure X wounds spells. If everyone wants to use something, that is one sign of something being broken. But it doesn't make that thing broken all by itself.

And even though I do find the 1 mind/lvl to be kind of harsh, the 10 min/lvl would be too high. I see this as putting a lot more relevance on the characters stats, which I find to be a good thing. If you have a spell for everything, then you're far too dependent on them...once stripped of them, you'll be operating a lot lower than before. I can see why this is seen as a bad thing, but I personally find this to be good. This way, you can just use a spell to boost your poor stats and you'll be relying more on yourself.

More self reliance = less teamwork. And this is a good thing?

Putting more relevance on a character's stats? I sure hope nobody rolls. The last thing D&D needs is to make the guy who rolled 18, 16, 16, 13, 15, 9 even more dramatically superior to the guy who rolled 15, 11, 8, 7, 12, 10.

 

[hong]

That's just as absurd as a game in which you can have any magical item you possibly want as long as it's within the level-based wealth guidelines...

Please to tell me where I said that.

Never said that was the case.

Oh, good. I would hate to think you were murdering strawmen for no good reason.

In fact, unless someone with such a keen sense for sarcasm as you took my comments about "no magic and pointy sticks" at face value (unthinkable!),

Oh, no! I ACTUALLY TOOK MMU2, IF THAT IS HIS _REAL CLONE ID_, SERIOUSLY. I WILL NEVER TAKE MMU3 SERIOUSLY AGAIN.

I can't imagine why you'd get that impression. So, why the pointless hyberbole?

Because it's FUN.

Not all of us run/play in games where people can make magical items at will by imbuing them with XP.

Are you trolling AGAIN, mmu4?