1 min per level spells and why they suck

[Ridley's Cohort]

Re: Re

Personally, I think it will be fun having long, drawn out fights with creatures the party is unprepared for, it should make battles more interesting and entertaining. I am all for making creatures more fearsome as long as they are not unbeatable.

I concur.

It would seem more interesting to win with the occasional ugly, drawn out battle, rather than automatically fleeing if the enemy doesn't drop in 3 rounds.

Because of the offense heavy aspect of the game, as it stands now, any battle that isn't pretty much over in round 3 is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory because PCs will start dropping like flies (if they haven't done so already). I think making defenses both more consistent and more manageable (weaker) is a good thing.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That's the problem, unless you are a specific build they are unbeatable. It's tough for the 18 str barbarian with two-handed weapon. Unless your lucky enough to have the correct material which in some cases strikes of Dues EX Machina its unbeatable.

Nonsense. You don't even need a two-handed weapon to defeat DR 5. I expect DRs higher than that will be fairly rare.

Any self-respecting mid-level grunt will average 15+ points a hit -- quite sufficient against DR 5 or even 10.

 

[rangerjohn]

Where are you getting +10 damage at mid level? The highest avg for a 1 hd weapon is 5.5.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where are you getting +10 damage at mid level? The highest avg for a 1 hd weapon is 5.5.

+2 Specialization. +3 Strength. +4 Power Attack. +2 GMW.

+11. We're there.

-Hyp.

 

[rangerjohn]

How likely are you to hit with that attack? Point 2 that's still a variation on the damage build. In order to beat the DR creatures your going to be tearing through others like tissue paper. Point 3 the barbarian has another component that is needed when he rages + to con to last the lengthened battle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Point 2 that's still a variation on the damage build.

Huh? How many mid-level melee fighters don't have Power Attack and Weapon Specialization?

16 Strength and a one-handed weapon is not a damage build.

-Hyp.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

They are also coming out with Greater Weapon Specialization, which should further boost damage. Energy additions to weapons also hurt creatures with DR save for certain powerful outsiders.

I would love to see my party fight a werewolf and have to beat with a torch while the Str 18 Barbarian wrestles it and the mage hits it with what magic they have available. That would be one hell of a great fight.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Re: Re

Personally, I think it will be fun having long, drawn out fights with creatures the party is unprepared for, it should make battles more interesting and entertaining. I am all for making creatures more fearsome as long as they are not unbeatable.

ugh. I'm sure this would be fun for groups where the fights are over in no time flat, but one of my last groups was nothing BUT hidiously long fights full of "odd or even" "now again for the blink" "roll for spell resistance" "it doesn't seem to do as much damage as you were expecting" "natural 20 on your spot? still don't see him" and our all time favorite "suddenly its completely healed, and makes all attacks this round!"

Again, I can see how for some groups it would be a nice change, but you don't want a steady diet of that sort of frustration, or you start wondering why you bothered to level in the first place.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Fenes 2]

Re: Re: Re

ugh. I'm sure this would be fun for groups where the fights are over in no time flat, but one of my last groups was nothing BUT hidiously long fights full of "odd or even" "now again for the blink" "roll for spell resistance" "it doesn't seem to do as much damage as you were expecting" "natural 20 on your spot? still don't see him" and our all time favorite "suddenly its completely healed, and makes all attacks this round!"

Again, I can see how for some groups it would be a nice change, but you don't want a steady diet of that sort of frustration, or you start wondering why you bothered to level in the first place.

Kahuna Burger

That is, frankly, a fault of your DM. I, for example, don't use player-frustrating tactics on my PCs, or at least not if I can help it, and neither would I tolerate it from any DM. The game is supposed to be fun, if you have not fun, then something is wrong.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Re: Re: Re: Re

That is, frankly, a fault of your DM.

well, duh. I was just sayign that new ways of doing this won't be universally fun. A big GM challange is finding the middle ground between making a fight "too easy" and making it tedious. Those who have never gotten past too easy may not realize how bad the tedious extreme can get.

Maybe the new DR rules will help that in some situations, by making the challenging part investigation and preparing for a fight that you then feel you deserve to win in 4 rounds...

Kahuna Burger