Level Up (A5E) #1 Origins Playtest Document - (Heritage) Nitty Gritty Feedback

[JiffyPopTart]

I think it must be a house rule, on the grounds that if it is not, then Subtle Spell has no meaning. That is, if you can be not noticed anyway, it is meaningless to have a specific metamagic that allows you to not be noticed.

It has been laid out earlier in this thread how Subtle Spell differs from just speaking at a low volume and slightly gesturing (like Obi-Wan Kenobi in my post).

Subtle Spell lets you cast a spell without any speaking at all, and without any hand gestures at all. This is very different and can be used for many benefits, only some of which intersect with being able to Obi-Wan Kenobi cast.

It let you do the following...

Cast a spell when gagged.
Cast a spell when your hands are tied.
Cast a spell when submerged.
Cast a spell when Silenced.
Cast a spell when polymorphed into a form that has no mouth or hands.
Cast a spell when even the slightest bit of noise is too much (when hiding 3 feet away from someone alone in a room).
Cast a spell unnoticed when being directly observed by someone watching for your to cast a spell.

....none of which you can do without Subtle Spell or some other special ability.

 

[Maxperson]

I ask you the same question I did previously. How would an Arcane Trickster in a sleepy common room use their Mage Hand/Pickpocket ability if "anyone nearby knows that a spell is being cast"?

So...

1. Cast it before you walk in. You then have 54 seconds to do what you like.

2. It's invisible, so even if the people know you did something, they won't know what. It could be Detect Magic, Cure Wounds or anything else. You can still use it to your heart's content.

The ability only keeps what you're doing with the hand a secret. It doesn't say that it keeps the spellcasting secret.

How would the Message cantrip work if you were using it to be sneaky

Not well. Maybe don't try to be sneaky with the casting of it. Maybe go somewhere that you won't be overheard.

There are certain spells and certain applications of spells where being somewhat subtle in the casting of them is important for them to work at all.

Like what? Message and Mage hand aren't in that category. Being sneaky is extra useful, yes. Talk your DM into allowing rolls to be sneaky when casting a spell.

Even your quote from the PHB says "Most spells require the chanting of mystic words." What if Guidance is one of those that do not?

Then it still requires certain pitch and resonance, which is the part you quoted when you replied here. What spells are not, is normal talk.

At the end of the day this is all up to GM interpretation, however I don't believe that ruling "Not everyone necessarily notices when you cast a spell" ventures into House Rule territory.

Up to DM ruling for sure. However, if you take the PHB at its word and spells are the chanting of mystic words, using specific pitch and resonance or both, then the interpretation won't include sneaky without such a house rule.

This is what a wizard casting suggestion in my campaign looks like....
View attachment 125966

So, psionics.

 

[clearstream]

It has been laid out earlier in this thread how Subtle Spell differs from just speaking at a low volume and slightly gesturing (like Obi-Wan Kenobi in my post).

Subtle Spell lets you cast a spell without any speaking at all, and without any hand gestures at all. This is very different and can be used for many benefits, only some of which intersect with being able to Obi-Wan Kenobi cast.

It let you do the following...

Cast a spell when gagged.
Cast a spell when your hands are tied.
Cast a spell when submerged.
Cast a spell when Silenced.
Cast a spell when polymorphed into a form that has no mouth or hands.
Cast a spell when even the slightest bit of noise is too much (when hiding 3 feet away from someone alone in a room).
Cast a spell unnoticed when being directly observed by someone watching for your to cast a spell.

....none of which you can do without Subtle Spell or some other special ability.

I think that is a defensible view point, on the grounds that titles of mechanics shouldn't be considered part of the mechanic. Meaning one might ignore the implications of "subtle" and allow subtlety in other ways. I'm influenced by the history of the metamagic as the feats Silent Spell and Still Spell. With the same caveat, those feats made me think that a spell could not be effectively silent, without use of the metamagic.