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14 year old girl wants to join my game
- Thread starter Arrgh! Mark!
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dvvega
Explorer
Arrgh! Mark!
I am also a teacher in Australia ... and it has nothing to do with law-suit happiness. You well know our education system and the problems you could encounter just by tapping her on the shoulder if she was a student in your school.
There is no question about meeting the parents, however meeting the parents is not enough to protect you even here in Australia. You need to have a supervisor of some nature around which should be a parent or elder sibling (18+). They can join the game, or sit around drinking coffee, reading however you cannot unfortunately allow the girl to be there unsupervised. Your friends and wife: professionals though they may be, are not appropriate since they are not there for the girl's personal interests/protection but rather gaming.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, however a colleague of mine has been in a similar situation which was then manipulated based on an external agenda - it got sorted out legally and he's okay, but it is not "safe" even in Australia.
D
I am also a teacher in Australia ... and it has nothing to do with law-suit happiness. You well know our education system and the problems you could encounter just by tapping her on the shoulder if she was a student in your school.
There is no question about meeting the parents, however meeting the parents is not enough to protect you even here in Australia. You need to have a supervisor of some nature around which should be a parent or elder sibling (18+). They can join the game, or sit around drinking coffee, reading however you cannot unfortunately allow the girl to be there unsupervised. Your friends and wife: professionals though they may be, are not appropriate since they are not there for the girl's personal interests/protection but rather gaming.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, however a colleague of mine has been in a similar situation which was then manipulated based on an external agenda - it got sorted out legally and he's okay, but it is not "safe" even in Australia.
D
What a weird and paronoia world, anyways:
#1 talk with her parents
#2 if they understand and accept it then it is your choice
#3 don't f*** her
I can't see any problems as long you're not dating her and you don't look creepy
If she starts too have a crush on you in the futur then you should probably take her out of the game. My advice is probably useless since I'm from Denmark.
#1 talk with her parents
#2 if they understand and accept it then it is your choice
#3 don't f*** her
I can't see any problems as long you're not dating her and you don't look creepy
If she starts too have a crush on you in the futur then you should probably take her out of the game. My advice is probably useless since I'm from Denmark.
Dire Bare
Legend
jameswilliamogle said:I don't see a problem at all: its a social game, and unless you do the "ok, the [NPC] tells you something away from the party... I need to talk to you in the other room," then you'll never have any problems. Plus, you guys are Australians? Like she hasn't heard any off-color jokes before...
Not picking on jameswilliamogle here, but how many of you guys who think this situation is okay are actually TEACHERS?!?!
It may not be fair, but we teachers have to lay down boundaries where the average person doesn't.
I'm sure the OP would be very responsible and mature with a young person in his game group, but it would be a VERY BAD IDEA for any teacher to play D&D with kids under 18.
I'm sure there are countries where teachers don't have to be as paranoid as we do here in the States, but it sounds like Austraila isn't one of them based on some of the responses in this thread!
Don't do it man, just don't do it!
Arrgh! Mark!
First Post
dvvega -
Not to disagree with you on the topic, but you over-emphasize with the issue of touching. I don't know how it is in the school you work at, and condolences to your comrade for being under that ominous presence, but the legal system has yet to declare touching or being in the company of minors as illegal. We can for example be at the same parties, social events and so on as the students; it's still (to a degree) our responsibility if they are drinking or the like. Of course it rather depends on the student what constitutes as abuse; to some students, a pat on the shoulder may constitute abuse.
Not that I'm particularly touchy, but I would mention that there is a myth about touching students = representation as paedophile = jailtime. You can in fact touch your students and should probably be willing to do so for the purposes of teaching.
As an anecdote, while I was on prac at Padua a teacher there told me that in the form class a boy with extreme family problems had broken down and started crying in her class - and had tried to hug her. The other boys comforted him even as she was proud to say to us she held her hands up in the air and said "Not touching!" as an example of her not being a paedophile.
I hold that as an example of not being a human being.
The issue of course is more along the lines of reputation (both professional and within the school). That is dealt with more in the situation of being honest and open; something I haven't a problem with.
(We just had a education legal expert come in for some PD on the topic.)
In terms of the game Its a moot point anyway, but the situation we play in (a long-time association of friends much older than her) isn't right for a young girl anyway. I suppose the question to ask would be
Were this hobby any other hobby in the same circumstances, would you let this person in? I'd have to say no. (One of my criteria for allowing new people in the game is asking myself 'Would I enjoy having a drink with this person'?)
Were it a game at the gaming store and anyone were invited, I wouldn't have a problem.
Not to disagree with you on the topic, but you over-emphasize with the issue of touching. I don't know how it is in the school you work at, and condolences to your comrade for being under that ominous presence, but the legal system has yet to declare touching or being in the company of minors as illegal. We can for example be at the same parties, social events and so on as the students; it's still (to a degree) our responsibility if they are drinking or the like. Of course it rather depends on the student what constitutes as abuse; to some students, a pat on the shoulder may constitute abuse.
Not that I'm particularly touchy, but I would mention that there is a myth about touching students = representation as paedophile = jailtime. You can in fact touch your students and should probably be willing to do so for the purposes of teaching.
As an anecdote, while I was on prac at Padua a teacher there told me that in the form class a boy with extreme family problems had broken down and started crying in her class - and had tried to hug her. The other boys comforted him even as she was proud to say to us she held her hands up in the air and said "Not touching!" as an example of her not being a paedophile.
I hold that as an example of not being a human being.
The issue of course is more along the lines of reputation (both professional and within the school). That is dealt with more in the situation of being honest and open; something I haven't a problem with.
(We just had a education legal expert come in for some PD on the topic.)
In terms of the game Its a moot point anyway, but the situation we play in (a long-time association of friends much older than her) isn't right for a young girl anyway. I suppose the question to ask would be
Were this hobby any other hobby in the same circumstances, would you let this person in? I'd have to say no. (One of my criteria for allowing new people in the game is asking myself 'Would I enjoy having a drink with this person'?)
Were it a game at the gaming store and anyone were invited, I wouldn't have a problem.
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dvvega
Explorer
Arrgh!! Mark!!
Unfortunately it isn't the student you have to worry about. My wife is also a teacher (primary education) and she tapped a student on the shoulder to inform him that he should move out of the way of the other children playing soccer on the sports field since he was in danger of being bowled over.
This went home as a hit on the shoulder and became a striking offence charge attempt by his parents. The parents were after the cold hard cash of settlement payouts that our education system is all too riddled with.
It was sorted out quick smart without an issue to my wife, however this is what happens in Australia like it or not. Of course it depends on socio-economic location/background as well unfortunately.
That is why the 14 yo situation is still a big deal in Australia and why I made my warnings. Its not what she does or what you do ... its what her parents want to interpret from it. That is why having them present is a good idea.
D
Unfortunately it isn't the student you have to worry about. My wife is also a teacher (primary education) and she tapped a student on the shoulder to inform him that he should move out of the way of the other children playing soccer on the sports field since he was in danger of being bowled over.
This went home as a hit on the shoulder and became a striking offence charge attempt by his parents. The parents were after the cold hard cash of settlement payouts that our education system is all too riddled with.
It was sorted out quick smart without an issue to my wife, however this is what happens in Australia like it or not. Of course it depends on socio-economic location/background as well unfortunately.
That is why the 14 yo situation is still a big deal in Australia and why I made my warnings. Its not what she does or what you do ... its what her parents want to interpret from it. That is why having them present is a good idea.
D
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
Dire Bare said:
I'm a teacher. I never socialize with my students more than eating lunch with them at school or tossing a frisbee around on the playground during the school day. I would never allow a minor into my gaming group, with the only likely exceptions being my own children, and even those exceptions aren't very likely at all.
shilsen
Adventurer
Dire Bare said:
I am, but to be fair I should add that what I'd do in this situation has very little to with me thinking that it's okay. Unlike Mark Chance (and I believe the two of us discussed this on another thread not too long ago), I have gamed with students of mine, sometimes while they were actually in my class. I have no problems interacting with students outside the classroom and outside college (I teach undergrad classes, so my situation is fairly different from that of most school teachers). I would have no problem in gaming with a minor if the person turned out to be a good gamer and I had a vacancy in my game.
That said, I fully realize that what I do is not the norm for teachers who are gamers, or just teachers, for that matter. And I also realize that many things I do would give a student who wants to get me in trouble an easy option to do so. It's just that I've carefully considered the options and pitfalls either way and decided that I can't live my life catering to the paranoia and idiocy of some people around me. I'd much rather act the way I think I should, rather than the way that is most expedient, so I do so, but with no illusions about the risks I face. Thus far, I've never had a problem, and while part of that must be sheer luck, part of it is also because I'm completely honest with students, colleagues and superiors about what I do. I'll point out to students when I'm doing something that a little skilful lying on their parts could paint as sexual harassment or inappropriate behaviour, and we usually all get a laugh out of how idiotic and pathetic it is that we exist in such a paranoid society.
So, in short, I'd have absolutely no problems with the OP's situation and am quite clear about how I'd respond. But I'm also aware of the ramifications of my response and agree completely with posters like Mark Chance and dvvega about the risks involved. I'd simply do what I do despite the risks and not because of them.
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