15 Minute NPCs

[takasi]

OK, I set the clock at half an hour, and here's what I came up with. There are probably errors, but I think this guy could be an interesting NPC and a decent fight with a couple of other NPCs along with him.

Vitriol Prilion
Male human cleric 10, sorcerer (metamagic specialist) 4, mystic theurge 2
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent, Listen +6, Spot +6
Languages Common, Infernal
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AC 16 (+0 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 16
hp 95 (16 HD)
Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +17
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Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +4 unholy spear +17/+12 (1d8+7 plus 2d6 unholy)
Ranged +4 unholy spear +15/+10 (1d8+7 plus 2d6 unholy)
Base Atk +10; Grp +12
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 12)
6th (2+1) - Stoneskin (D), Heal, Blade Barrier
5th (3+1) - Teleport (D), True Seeing, Spell Resistance, Righteous Might
4th (3+1) - Dimension Door (D), Cure Critical Wounds
3rd (5+1) - Fly (D), Protection from Energy (3), Magic Circle Against Good, Searing Light (2), Invisibility Purge
2nd (5+1) - Bull's Strength (D), Hold Person, Spiritual Weapon, Cure Moderate Wounds (3)
1st (6+1) - Enlarge Person (D), Shield of Faith, Bless, Sanctuary, Command, Divine Favor, Protection from Good
0 (6) - Detect Magic, Light, Resistance, Read Magic, Guidance (2)
Domains - Strength, Travel
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 6th)
3rd (4/day) - displacement
2nd (6/day) - mirror image, levitate
1st (7/day) - mage armor, shield, expeditious retreat, magic missile
0 (6/day) - detect magic, read magic, disrupt undead, prestidigitation, acid splash, mage hand, dancing lights
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Abilities Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 16
Feats Empower Spell, Extra Turning, Divine Justice, Weapon Focus (spear), Smiting Spell, Power Attack, Combat Casting
Skills Concentration 19/+21, Knowledge (religion) 19/+21, Knowledge (religion) 19/+21, Spellcraft 19/+21
Possessions +4 unholy spear, periapt of wisdom +6, rint of protection +2, gloves of dexterity +4, amulet of natural armor +3

 

[takasi]

And I can throw together an NPC that presents no challenge in 15 minutes too. But that hardly proves anything.

Now to be fair, it's a classed NPC. Why spend 90 minutes fine tuning a CR 15 to be challenging to a party of 15th level characters when you can just build a CR 17 or 18 in 15 minutes who isn't optimized?

 

[takasi]

Nor are they grounded in the setting. So much for simulation and narration. Winner: gamism.

I'm talking about GDS simulationism, where the setting is made from the rules, and in this case the rules and tables create the NPCs of the world.

The DM does not arbitrarily build NPCs based on his own motivations and agenda for story. Instead he develops what is natural from the tables (a town of size x should have a wizard of level y). The tables are developed with reasons (wizards in country b have a higher chance of having feat z because school w is dominant).

 

[JohnSnow]

Okay, off the top of my head, there's NO reason to go Cleric 10 (except maybe for hit points...)

As a 16th-level PC, this character works best on something like Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10. That's a CL of 13 as both a wizard and a cleric (which means more spells of both, and his arcane spells are actually useful).

There also doesn't seem to be much of a theme to this character. What you've built here is a weak cleric with some sorcerer spells. It certainly doesn't really benefit from its prestige class. If I had to guess, I'd say you took a stock 12th-level cleric and a stock 6th-level sorcerer and added two mystic theurge levels. Not picking the PrC up at Level 7 is a terrible mistake.

Personally, I'd have gone with a either a necromancy-themed character or a crusading mage. This, to me, seems like a mishmash.

And just curiously, where'd you pick up "Scent?"

All in all, not bad. But hardly an impressive foe. And, more to the point, it took you half an hour, not 15 minutes. And without running the numbers, I can pretty much guarantee there's errors.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Takasi's NPC builds

There was one more error in the first build that I don't think anyone caught. The Gnome illusionist had only 1 opposed school, and he's required to have two.

That said, I think in a way Takasi has proved his point. I do think his gnome illusionist was perfectly adequate for an NPC that's going to die in a 5 round fight, statted up for a home game. Sure, it wasn't ready for publication, but I don't really care, and this is why:

In my opinion, it just doesn't matter if it takes a lot of time to write up NPCs for publication. What matters is how much time it takes a DM whose job isn't game design to write up NPCs for his home game.

I am a big fan of 3E, but I will be the first to admit that I feel way less comfortable winging things and running homebrews than I did with 1E, even though my own mastery of the rules far exceeds that of the typical players in my games.

If 4E is more streamlined than 3E, it will be because compromises were made. I can't see myself accepting those compromises unless they get me to a point where I am way more comfortable winging things and writing my own stuff than I was with 3E. If I'm running a published adventure anyway, well I don't care if took the author 3 hours to make the statblock.

So to me, what Takasi has demonstrated is that, even in 3E , it is possible to whip up an adequate NPC in 15 minutes. I'm going to take a good look at what the PHB2 provides in this area, because I can't currently do it that fast.

Then I'll compare my results with what I can do in 4E after it comes out. That should provide a useeul metric for determining whether to switch editions.


Ken

 

[Storminator]

OK, I set the clock at half an hour, and here's what I came up with. There are probably errors, but I think this guy could be an interesting NPC and a decent fight with a couple of other NPCs along with him.

I think you're disproving your own point by doing these.

This guy's spells are wrong in both classes and his AC is off. His skills are wrong (I assume the doubled Know(Rel) is just a copy/paste error) because of cross class skills.

:shrug:

PS

 

[S'mon]

I regard 15 minutes as a ridiculously long time to spend on an NPC's stats. This kind of thing really soured me on 3e. Anything over 2-3 minutes for major NPCs, or a few seconds for minor, is way too much, IMO.

 

[takasi]

If I had to guess, I'd say you took a stock 12th-level cleric and a stock 6th-level sorcerer and added two mystic theurge levels. Not picking the PrC up at Level 7 is a terrible mistake.

No, I built it from scratch using the PHB 2. I did use a stock blank stat block as a base, hence the 'scent', but that probably made it more difficult. I didn't use it for the gnome.

And I picked cleric 10 to illustrate that you don't need to make NPCs that are mechanically perfect and optimized. Take these stats and develop his story using them. Why does this guy have 10 levels of cleric? Because at some point in his life he developed magic. It wasn't preplanned by someone trying to optimize a stat block.

 

[takasi]

This guy's spells are wrong in both classes and his AC is off. His skills are wrong (I assume the doubled Know(Rel) is just a copy/paste error) because of cross class skills.

All of the decisions are made, that's the important part. The rest is in editing. You can very easily fix this stat block without having to come back to me and ask "what exactly did you want to do?" Lower the skills a little for cross class, factor in the +2 from the ring of protection. I put my pencil down at the end of 30 minutes, and if I'd had a few more he'd be polished and ready to go.

 

[Mercule]

I'm talking about GDS simulationism, where the setting is made from the rules, and in this case the rules and tables create the NPCs of the world.

So, what you're saying is that the tables make excellent NPCs when the goal is to make NPCs based on the tables?

That's the only thing I can think of, because nowhere did I say that you needed to use house rules. I just said to add a bit of flavor.