15 Minute NPCs

[Cam Banks]

I completely disagree.

IME, some players (including me) can feel cheated if the world, including NPCs, are generating using meta-game knowledge. If they are built organically using tables and charts they may not always be 'optimized' but they are just as much fun to play and run because they feel natural.

I think the tables and charts in PHB 2 are designed for lowest-common denominator. They know what's typical and what's expected and they are laid out like that, and the chances of getting anything noteworthy, let alone "organic feeling" is pretty low.

I have never understood why anybody thinks random die rolls produce organic results. They can produce unexpected results, sure, but organic systems usually make sense (and not smashed together without rhyme or reason.) Other than the platypus, of course.

This is why I always try to do run point-buy chargen. There's plenty of random nonsense in the game itself.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[kennew142]

Developed through fate and generated organically.

There is nothing organic about a random table.

 

[JohnSnow]

There is nothing organic about a random table.

Don't tell that to fans of Warhammer.

 

[Fifth Element]

It's perfectly playable, and very nearly publishable.

The stuff I publish is pretty low-quallity - but I certainly wouldn't publish that. You're missing a heck of a lot of stuff in there. If that were submitted by a WotC staffer to an editor, I'm sure there would be words. "Very nearly publishable" is a huge, huge stretch.

 

[Fifth Element]

Developed through fate and generated organically.

Someone has to say it. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Cam Banks]

I think we can safely say that all gaming universes are created via intelligent design, even if the real world may or may not be.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[takasi]

I think the tables and charts in PHB 2 are designed for lowest-common denominator. They know what's typical and what's expected and they are laid out like that, and the chances of getting anything noteworthy, let alone "organic feeling" is pretty low.

If you'll notice, there are no random rolls in the PHB 2 system. I suggested adding some if you wanted variety to spell lists and magic items, but the feat trees and skills are preselected based on role.

Which is EXACTLY what I suspect will be presented in the 4th edition DMG.

I have never understood why anybody thinks random die rolls produce organic results. They can produce unexpected results, sure, but organic systems usually make sense (and not smashed together without rhyme or reason.) Other than the platypus, of course.

This is why I always try to do run point-buy chargen. There's plenty of random nonsense in the game itself.

You provided the PERFECT example: chargen.

By rolling stats, you are not ensuring that everyone is 'equally balanced' in terms of power. Why? Because that is not natural or realistic.

Does that mean you roll 3d6 and have a lot of people in your world with 3 strength? No; that's where other rules come in for chargen, like drop the lowest or 'no score is less than 8' or whatever. The complaint of 'PHB2 lacks variety' can be resolved by adding a few die rolls instead of agonizing for hours over 'the perfect build' when the net gain is only marginally and arguably 'better'.

And a long, arduous process only feeds into more gamist tendencies at the table. "It took me 90 minutes to build this NPC, and you guys killed it in only 5 minutes. Boo-hoo!"

 

[mmu1]

I've never had problems with the amount of time it takes to generate NPCs in 3.5 - the act of statting someone out doesn't take long, if you know the rules.

What takes time is thinking about what you want the character to be able to do, picking through the different options, and juggling splatbooks (which we'll have just as many for 4E as we did for 3.5) and the main way to cut down on that time is to take away most of the choices. Even then, I'm not sure that it'll make a huge difference - when people have fewer choices, each one becomes more important, and people spend more time agonizing over them. (I've seen plenty of people spend more time making a Sorcerer than a Wizard...)

I also have to say that I honestly don't buy it as representative when a designer talks about how long it took them to make a character during a playtest. They're not putting those character together for an actual game - they know what specific throwaway characters they need depending on what they're testing, so all that's left for them to do is to throw the stats together quickly. I'm pretty sure that any player or DM who under 4E continues to put a similar amount of care into their PCs and NPCs as they do now will find themselves going way over that 15 minute time that's been thrown around.

 

[Cam Banks]

You provided the PERFECT example: chargen.

By rolling stats, you are not ensuring that everyone is 'equally balanced' in terms of power. Why? Because that is not natural or realistic.

I don't know about you, but I actually prefer "this is a game where I don't feel shafted by dice" over "this is so natural and realistic, which is why I have sucky stats and yours are better."

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Storminator]

But to summarize, you've quickly made a PC that is

1) incomplete. Initiative? Grapple? Familiar? Spell DCs?
2) wrong. Melee attack, ranged attack, skills, feats, stats, and spells are incorrect.
3) weak. He might not live thru the 1st round vs my 7th level party. If his init roll is bad, he might not act!

PS