16th level party TPKd by a goblin?!!

[fl8m]

I hate TPK's myself but poor planning and overestimating the party has led to some unpleasant results luckily i can usually find a way out of them, although it usually requires the bad guys suddenly getting dumb and deciding they should imprisson the invaders they just beat to a pulp

 

[Harlock]

I hate TPK's myself but poor planning and overestimating the party has led to some unpleasant results luckily i can usually find a way out of them, although it usually requires the bad guys suddenly getting dumb and deciding they should imprisson the invaders they just beat to a pulp

As a player that is one thing I hate more than anything. You're the DM, you pick the encounters. You beat the players into a bloody pulp, then you nerf it? I hate TPKs but I hate contrived critter nerfing even more. There have been times when I knew our party was doomed as a player and I decide to really test the DM. I'll throw in the hat and do some bonehead moves like pass on an attack to fall back and drink a potion that will only prolong the agony of my more than certain death. I hate it, hate it, hate it when all of the sudden the most hopeless situation turns around not from luck, a clever plan, or divine intervention from the RP Gods who invoke the name of Mt. Dew and erase the whole thing, but rather because the DM decides he's not ready to let the players go yet. DM fiat is fine, but please, make it plausible. /rant

As for Dark Eternal: I really feel for you. I've had players and whole parties in the past get all puffed up. It's a part of the game. Sometimes the bravado is an indirect way of your players asking you to be tougher because they feel it is too easy. Based on your description of their reaction afterward I tend to think this was not the case with your group. Chalk it up to the learning curve and make sure there are special notches in that goblin's belt so when their next party gets badass enough to take him on, they'll get some real satisfaction out of it. TPKs suck, but it's always a risk, especially when egos are inflated.

 

[jdavis]

TPK's happen but I have a friend who quit gaming over stuff like that, you work on a character for over a year to get them up to that level and then bam they are gone in a meaningless encounter. It gets frustrating for players, personally I never TPK a party (I always work in a backdoor or a way out for myself if things go wrong). In this situation they just blew it but it's always good to let at least one player escape/only be knocked unconsious so he can resurrect the rest. You get the same effect but don't destroy your campaign. There whole argument of not being afraid of a single goblin is flawed, they knew he was strong or he wouldn't be there, a good butt kicking was in order but you should of let one of them crawl away in a bloody mess to go get help in the end.

 

[Malin Genie]

With only a +12 Will save I'm very surprised no-one just threw a Hold Monster/Feeblemind/Dominate Person/Hold Person/etc on him.... an 18th level party should be able to manage decent DCs...or grapple (the -4 size penalty will hurt him, and he can only attack with one weapon while grappled) or both....

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Speaking of size - until now, no one mentioned that he could not use the Luck Blade or the evil Sunblade as a finessed weapon. The Short Sword isn`t a light weapon for a goblin (size of weapon and character is small), so Weapon Finesse (Short Sword) is "illegal".

Not that it really matters - if you have the BlackSun Blade, you could also have a BlackSun Dagger. (Or a Short Sword of Subtilety, which might have been even worse...)

But for the rest:
Sometimes bad things happen to good guys.
(I remember a Total Party Kill in a case where our Gamemaster looked up the false line and throw a Fire Giant instead one of the lesser Giants against our 3rd level party... Nobody noticed the error, even after looking up the statistics and CR - well, until a week later, when we received an e-mail of our Master that he found his mistake... But it was to late, then - we already rolled up new characters...)


Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Ragu: Male goblin ranger 3, fighter 6, Tempest 10; CR 20; small humanoid (goblinoid); HD 19d10+76 (298 hp); Con 18 +4;

??

19 * 10 + 76 = 266 hit points, if he has max hit points on every die. How'd you get 298?

 

[NewJeffCT]

I just think it's funny his name is "Ragu" - did you tell them the goblin was named after a brand of spaghetti sauce?

 

[Al]

What surprises me is that the PCs had no backup plan. As the old maxim goes, if you have no backup plan, you have no plan at all.

Where were the Clones?
Where were the Contingency Teleports?
Where were the last minute Miracles?

Personally, the goblin seems to be not particularly powerful. Unless he had absurdly good luck, there is no reason why the party should have survived. For one, unless you have houseruled Harm, that's the best place to start...

As for my silliest ever TPK, the PCs had just had an evil nobleman executed for necromantic practices and murder. Before their testified against him, he had told them that he was 'a wealthy and well-connected man' (he told each of them separately, so it became almost a comedic catchphrase) and in his final death speech, he reiterated the warning. Later that day, the PCs received a message saying that if they were still in town in five days, they would meet their deaths.

Here's the silly part: they had to be in a nearby village in three days for a funeral service for the aforesaid nobleman's victims. So they went to the village, and instead of staying there, or even recruiting aid *despite having been offered and despite having explained their predicament to a local mercenary officer*, they returned to the town.

The thugs sent by the nobleman then killed them. It was ingenious- probably the only ever purely PC-engineered TPK, and certainly the only time that the PCs have gone out of their way to be killed

PS The party consisted of a 5th level paladin, 5th level fighter and 2nd level bard/3rd level rogue. The thugs sent were four 4th level warriors. It was a very tough fight, and they reduced the final thug to 6hps - but they were meant to get help...

 

[Dark Dragon]

Hmm, seems that the party encountered some sort of a Yoda goblin - and where so impressed that they weren't able to use some good spells and combat tactics...or were they low on spells, hps, gear?

I'm not very fond of TPKs, it is up to the DM to design an encounter and PC death is no fun at all (unless it's something heroic, IMHO). Bad luck is bitter, but for a whole party ? Strange things occur from time to time

Well, I hadn't a TPK as a DM or player, but it was close...The last thing was a battle with a banshee in ToE. The converted banshee was weak: low hp, low DC against its wail; it was NOT that monster in MM II. The group (5 PCs at level 10) had a lot of hints that there is something VERY dangerous in the room, able to kill with its voice...The bard considered to cast Silence, but actually, she didn't...So they encountered the creature. The druid was first, flame-striked it but damage dealt was not enough. The banshee wailed - and killed 3 PCs. Only the paladin and the druid survived and fought a hard battle. They killed it one round before its next wail attack...

 

[Jeremy]

Ok - here you go:

Ragu: Male goblin ranger 3, fighter 6, Tempest 10; CR 20; small humanoid (goblinoid); HD 19d10+76 (198 hp); Init +7; Spd 40; AC 32; Attacks: Luck blade: +28/+23/+18/+13 (1d6+5, 17-20 x2) Blacksun Blade: +29/+24/+19/+14 (1d10+6, 17-20 x2); SA: none; SQ: none; SR: none; AL NE; SV: Fort +22, Ref +20, Will +12; Str 15 +2 (19 +4); Dex 21 +5 (25 +7); Con 18 +4; Int 13 +1; Wis 12 +1; Cha 9 -1; Skills: Balance +15, Climb +14, Jump +19, Listen +8, Move Silently +11, Ride +7, Search +11, Spot +5, Wilderness Lore +5; Feats: Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon fighting, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Weapon Finesse (Shortsword), Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Two-Weapon fighting, Great Cleave, Greater Two-Weapon fighting, Combat Reflexes, Absolute Ambidexterity, Improved Critical (Shortsword), Supreme Two-Weapon fighting; SQ Off-hand parry +6; Possessions: Belt of Strength +4, Gloves of Dexterity +4, Cloak of Resistance +4, Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Ring of Protection +5, Blacksun Blade +2 (Sun Blade, corrupted to evil), Luck Blade +1 (1 wish remaining).

That's totally inexcusable. The party deserved to die. A size small fighter with no capability for travel, flight, ranged attacks, or spell casting and he owned them.

18th level parties that aren't flying or softening their opponents up from afar deserve what they get. Especially when they don't use mass heals to stay in the game.

That creature should not have won against a party like that. Not in the least. You didn't do anything wrong, the players just had their characters commit mass suicide. That goblin has nothing but attacks and ac. He's got no great intelligence or wisdom, no versatility, he's just a walking blender. So back up. Or fly. Or go invisible. Or do any of the things you have supposed to have been doing since 5th level. Oi.