"1st Edition Rules, 4th Edition Feel"?

[Doug McCrae]

Perhaps having the PC's find a low level 'zap spell' in wand form early on might be useful. Something like Magic Missile, burning hands ect. a few dozen charges should see the mage through the first level or two until he starts picking up a bit more spell variety.

Good one. At-wills are the new wand. So long as the magic user never runs out of wands (and the DM can ensure he doesn't), he always has an at-will. Might be OP, however, even if it's just one magic missile per round.

 

[JimLotFP]

I'm interested in making my own 1st edition AD&D adventure that will be used with players whose only RPG experience is with 4th edition D&D.

Why do you seem to assume players with only 4e experience will not adapt to nor enjoy full-on early edition play?

 

[Geoffrey]

What's the intended level range?

1st level to begin with, then upwards.

 

[Geoffrey]

Why do you seem to assume players with only 4e experience will not adapt to nor enjoy full-on early edition play?

James, I'm not assuming the certainty of it, but rather the possibility of it. It'll be good to have some ideas for how to make 1st edition more enjoyable for them if stuff such as level drain, character deaths, etc. are game-breakers for them.

 

[Mournblade94]

I've been mulling this for quite a while.

The hardest, most essential part: Give each class an ability that makes some other character cool under some circumstances.

That is exactly what 1st edition did!

 

[Saeviomagy]

1st level to begin with, then upwards.

If you want to do 1st level with a 4e feel in od&d, without changing rules, you're going to have one major, major problem:

1st level od&d characters die from a single hit, 4e characters basically never ever do.

That's the big issue you need to overcome, and without rules changes, I can't really see it happening: if you use the rules as is, you are quite likely to have one or more PCs with 1 or 2 hitpoints.

 

[Chainsaw]

There is a thread (that I started) around here somewhere about adapting/converting 1E modules to 4E. Mearls chimed in at some point. You might consider reading through that. If I recall, one of the major points was adapting the spatial mechanics. Older modules weren't built to feature combat areas where everyone's various powers can be flexed (slide here, push there, pull here, etc etc).

 

[Lanefan]

There is a thread (that I started) around here somewhere about adapting/converting 1E modules to 4E. Mearls chimed in at some point. You might consider reading through that. If I recall, one of the major points was adapting the spatial mechanics. Older modules weren't built to feature combat areas where everyone's various powers can be flexed (slide here, push there, pull here, etc etc).

I might be mis-reading, but I think he's trying to go the other way...to play 1e but make it "feel" like 4e.

Which of course raises an obvious point: if you want a 4e feel, run 4e modules; battlemaps and all. Start with Keep on the Shadowfell rather than Keep on the Borderlands, for example, and go from there.

Lan-"be warned: KotS does not play well in 1e when run with a 1e feel"-efan

 

[S'mon]

If you want to do 1st level with a 4e feel in od&d, without changing rules, you're going to have one major, major problem:

1st level od&d characters die from a single hit, 4e characters basically never ever do.

That's the big issue you need to overcome, and without rules changes, I can't really see it happening: if you use the rules as is, you are quite likely to have one or more PCs with 1 or 2 hitpoints.

Using 1e with maximum-hp-at-1st level, and at least half max at higher levels, solves that problem.

4e PCs can die in one hit. IMC a 1st level Ranger was brought to 1 hp off negative-bloodied (insta kill) by a dire wolf's attack, in the first round of the first combat of his first session. Plenty of low level 4e creatures have critical hit damage enough to insta-kill 1st level PCs.

The big difference from 1e is attrition; 4e PCs are expected to start each fight at full hp and to lose lots of hp during the fight. IME 1e PCs will often begin a battle at below full hp.

This means that in 4e weaker encounters are much less threatening to the PCs, because they do not much heighten the likelihood of the group dying later. Conversely stronger encounters become more threatening to the PCs because the chance of a TPK goes up much faster with increased enemy strength.

In 1e, lots of weak encounters serve to attrite group resources over time, while going by quickly, and providing little XP. In 4e lots of weak encounters makes for very little threat, provides a lot of XP, and takes a long time to play.

Given the choice, 4e PCs have a strong incentive to seek out encounters below party level and avoid encounters above party level - this maximises XP gain while minimising threat. 1e PCs have incentives to seek out stronger encounters as only stronger encounters give significant XP, and they often mean more treasure.

 

[Nagol]

Using 1e with maximum-hp-at-1st level, and at least half max at higher levels, solves that problem.

4e PCs can die in one hit. IMC a 1st level Ranger was brought to 1 hp off negative-bloodied (insta kill) by a dire wolf's attack, in the first round of the first combat of his first session. Plenty of low level 4e creatures have critical hit damage enough to insta-kill 1st level PCs.

The big difference from 1e is attrition; 4e PCs are expected to start each fight at full hp and to lose lots of hp during the fight. IME 1e PCs will often begin a battle at below full hp.

This means that in 4e weaker encounters are much less threatening to the PCs, because they do not much heighten the likelihood of the group dying later. Conversely stronger encounters become more threatening to the PCs because the chance of a TPK goes up much faster with increased enemy strength.

In 1e, lots of weak encounters serve to attrite group resources over time, while going by quickly, and providing little XP. In 4e lots of weak encounters makes for very little threat, provides a lot of XP, and takes a long time to play.

Given the choice, 4e PCs have a strong incentive to seek out encounters below party level and avoid encounters above party level - this maximises XP gain while minimising threat. 1e PCs have incentives to seek out stronger encounters as only stronger encounters give significant XP, and they often mean more treasure.

Even if you start at max-hp in 1e, the characters are still much more likely to beome incapacitated in a single hit.

A longsword equivalent will incapacitate the max-hp Magic-User more than 50% of the time -- assuming no strength bonus or additional damage (and death will occur 1 in 8 times even if the optional -3 rule is in play). That assumes no Con bonus. Though even with a 16 or better Con, the Magic-User will become incapacitated over 1/3 of the time from a single hit.

Only the max-hp Fighter can guarantee continuing from a single hit, but there is over a 40% chance that a second hit of 1d8 damage will drop him (assuming no Con bonus; with a 18 Con there is over a 1/5 chance of dropping).