"1st Edition Rules, 4th Edition Feel"?

[Lanefan]

A longsword equivalent will incapacitate the max-hp Magic-User more than 50% of the time -- assuming no strength bonus or additional damage (and death will occur 1 in 8 times even if the optional -3 rule is in play). That assumes no Con bonus. Though even with a 16 or better Con, the Magic-User will become incapacitated over 1/3 of the time from a single hit.

Which is, in true 1e fashion, why the MU brings along a meat-shield henchman; to guard against exactly this.

If it gets to the point where your MU is within reach of someone's longsword, something's gone rather wrong either with your stealth, your tactics, or your surprise rolling...

Lan-"that said, I do own a longsword +2, wizardslayer"-efan

 

[Nagol]

Which is, in true 1e fashion, why the MU brings along a meat-shield henchman; to guard against exactly this.

If it gets to the point where your MU is within reach of someone's longsword, something's gone rather wrong either with your stealth, your tactics, or your surprise rolling...

Lan-"that said, I do own a longsword +2, wizardslayer"-efan

But that's one of the things that's changed in 4e feel. The squishies are less squishy. You'd have to apply some form of patch over max hp + half max / level to 1e to give it 4e survivabillity.

 

[S'mon]

A longsword equivalent will incapacitate the max-hp Magic-User more than 50% of the time -- assuming no strength bonus or additional damage (and death will occur 1 in 8 times even if the optional -3 rule is in play).

The 1e '-3' rule is so worded that one could equally read it that PCs cannot be taken below -3 hp in one attack, then are dying up to -10.

Personally I use 'incapacitated at 0 to -2, dying at -3 to -9, dead at -10', which cuts down on one-hit kills.

 

[billd91]

First, I think you're going to have to increase hp of pretty much everything, certainly every PC... without increasing the damage done by attacks. 1e characters (and enemies) usually go down under fewer hits than 4e. You'll want to extend the fight to give it the 4e feel.

Add in some basic maneuvers, rather like at wills, for all the PCs. Base them off the 4e ones if you want, but I'd probably aim simpler. Add some combat moves to move the enemies around a bit with slides and pushes, some immobilizes, some stuns, some slows. Make them simple to deal with, maybe just a single round duration. Maybe they do full damage. Maybe a power that doesn't impose an effect does double normal damage.

Consider not using exceptional strength and simply using the bonuses from 3e/4e for Strength (as well as Dex and Con).

Lift the skill system from 4e and use that rather than non-weapon proficiencies.

I'm not really sure I'd go with static defenses rather than saving throws. 1e saves, though they incorporate a fair amount of ambiguity, is significantly different and worth using to showcase 1e methods of doing things.

Turn the AC around and go up rather than down. Leave it capped, more or less, at 30 (-10) and don't let anything go beyond that. That's also a major point of departure for pre-3x and post-3x.

 

[Riley]

...even if the optional -3 rule is in play.

Dagnabbit.... I've never heard of this. Do you mean to tell me that there is a 1e rule that I missed?

 

[qstor]

4e is all about speed of combat (at least in theory), so you might want to take out some of the more fiddly 1e combat rules such as "weapon vs. armour type", "weapon speed", and so forth if you haven't already. Also for your own sanity re-build and streamline the combat-matrix tables for the various classes.

Really IMHO, that's one of the things that I disagree with. I've just played LFR for 4e and the combats take like an hour sometimes.

In 3e I've seen combats that take less than a round with a well placed fireball or if there's a single bad guy a fighter hitting it for a ton of damage then the combat is done.

I haven't played 1e in like a year but the combats didn't take more than 3 rounds when we played in January.

Mike

 

[billd91]

Really IMHO, that's one of the things that I disagree with. I've just played LFR for 4e and the combats take like an hour sometimes.

In 3e I've seen combats that take less than a round with a well placed fireball or if there's a single bad guy a fighter hitting it for a ton of damage then the combat is done.

I haven't played 1e in like a year but the combats didn't take more than 3 rounds when we played in January.

Mike

I don't think Lanefan meant that the full combat is necessarily over quicker, rather that individual actions are faster to impose and resolve because the powers are of relatively limited scope and fewer characters are making multiple attacks. The net effect, at least according to most reports I've heard, are that individual rounds may be a little faster than 3e, even if the full combat isn't because of inflated hit points.

 

[Nifft]

Okay, here's a 1e-compatible version of a 4e core mechanic: Healing Surges.

These become 1e Henchman Surges.

Every PC has 4 Henchmen around him at all times. These guys are so dedicated, or their families are so poor, that they're each willing to take a lethal hit for the PC.

When you take 1/4 of your total HP -- and your total HP should be inflated to reflect the presence of these henchmen -- one of your loyal servitors is out of the fight.

Some "healing" spells & class abilities either heal one of your fallen henchmen, or simply summon a new one from the pack of porters who are always unobtrusively following the party. "Martial healing" might work this way.

For no apparent reason, the number of times per day you can slap one of your fallen henchmen awake -- or simply summon a new one -- is limited by your class and Constitution bonus.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lanefan]

Okay, here's a 1e-compatible version of a 4e core mechanic: Healing Surges.

These become 1e Henchman Surges.

Every PC has 4 Henchmen around him at all times. These guys are so dedicated, or their families are so poor, that they're each willing to take a lethal hit for the PC.

When you take 1/4 of your total HP -- and your total HP should be inflated to reflect the presence of these henchmen -- one of your loyal servitors is out of the fight.

Some "healing" spells & class abilities either heal one of your fallen henchmen, or simply summon a new one from the pack of porters who are always unobtrusively following the party. "Martial healing" might work this way.

For no apparent reason, the number of times per day you can slap one of your fallen henchmen awake -- or simply summon a new one -- is limited by your class and Constitution bonus.

In other words, a less illusionary and somewhat self-regenerating version of the Mirror Image spell.

Lanefan

 

[Nifft]

In other words, a less illusionary and somewhat self-regenerating version of the Mirror Image spell.

Yes! But these ones also scream horribly when they get stabbed, so there's an extra layer of comedy.

Cheers, -- N