"1st Edition Rules, 4th Edition Feel"?

[Geoffrey]

Let's say that a DM wanted to make a D&D adventure using either the 1st edition AD&D rules, or the rules in the 1981 D&D Basic book (edited by Moldvay) and in the 1981 D&D Expert book (edited by Cook). Further, let's say that the players all had experience only with 4th edition D&D.

What simple things (without changing the game rules) could the DM do with his adventure to make it neither "unfun" nor "unfair" for the players? I can think of the following:

1. Don't include monsters or anything else in the adventure that can drain experience levels from the PCs.

2. Don't include anything in the adventure that requires a "save or die" saving throw.

3. Don't include anything in the adventure that requires a "save or suck" saving throw. (For example, no medusa or basilisk that can turn a PC to stone if he fails a single saving throw.)

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Diamond Cross]

Dear god, why?

Why can't people just let things be?

If you want to go this route the simple thing to do is to get some of the old modules, and instead of using those stats, just use 4e stats. Such as where it would say a Kobold, use a Kobold 4e.

It's not that difficult.

 

[Geoffrey]

If you want to go this route the simple thing to do is to get some of the old modules, and instead of using those stats, just use 4e stats. Such as where it would say a Kobold, use a Kobold 4e.

I'm not interested in using modules. I'm interested in making my own 1st edition AD&D adventure that will be used with players whose only RPG experience is with 4th edition D&D.

 

[Stormonu]

Rather than "don't", which I think is totally unfun, I would rather see "tweak to fit".

1) Instead of drain experience, the creature does nasty damage (say 1d10 per level it would have drained) and puts a temporary -1 penalty/level on the character.

2) Make "Save or Die" into "Three Strikes and your out". On a hit, the first failed save makes you lose 1/2 your total hit points. The second failed save drops you the same amount again (so if hadn't taken any damage, you'd be at 0 hp, and just unconscious). Fail the third, and you're at -10 and pushing up daisies.

3) "Save or Suck" from Medusas and basilisks could be turned into direct damage on a failed save (say, 1d6/HD). If the target drops to 0 hp or less, they turn to stone or are otherwise down for the count.

4) Sleep, Hold, Paralyze or other effects that render a character incapable of action have subsequent saves every round (or 1d4 rounds) at a small penalty (-2 or -4), giving the player a chance to break free and get back in the game.

5) Give out action points. Use them as you would in 4E, or allow them to be used for an instant successful save against one of the effects above.

 

[Ry]

I've been mulling this for quite a while.

The hardest, most essential part: Give each class an ability that makes some other character cool under some circumstances.

 

[Imperialus]

Dear god, why?

Why can't people just let things be?

The short answer is "Why Not?"

A longer answer might be because maybe he is, (like he said) trying to get some 4th edition players interested in playing a previous edition of D&D that he is more familiar with and/or prefers?

As for actual advice, having gone 'backwards' as a player myself the biggest stumbling block I think you're going to run into is a shorter adventure day, particularly until the casters get a handle on the Vancian magic rather than At will/Encounter/Daily system from 4th ed. I started my gaming career with 2nd ed so it wasn't totally foreign but even so I had a bit of a tough time readjusting.

Perhaps having the PC's find a low level 'zap spell' in wand form early on might be useful. Something like Magic Missile, burning hands ect. a few dozen charges should see the mage through the first level or two until he starts picking up a bit more spell variety. Our DM (who faithfully rolls on the random item tables) actually rolled a staff of healing during our first adventure, which took a lot of the pressure of me as the Cleric enabling me to keep the party going through the roughest parts of first level.

Encourage players to embrace the spirit of the older editions too. Charmed men at arms and hirelings are IMO an expected part of a low level adventuring party. Lots of groups avoided them not wanting to sacrifice a half share of XP, but my way of looking at it was this: "Do I want to surrender a half share of XP and treasure on a daily basis, or do I want to loose 1/3rd to 1/2 of my experience when I get killed?" Running the men at arms also gives the casters something to do when they aren't casting spells.

 

[JeffB]

Check out the 4E monster manual and how 4E addresses the issues you brought up.

As a big fan of 4E as well as big fan of OD&D (in all forms), AD&D, and 2E- I happen to like 4Es take on reducing the "bang , you're dead" aspect of the prior versions.

Generally 4E makes these bad situations get progressively worse each round-until after a few rounds, your PC is toast. It would be simple to develop a mechanic to utilize in M/C/M that models this- 1st round poison, you take X damage unless you make your save, next round you take X damage unless you make a save, 3rd round, you're helpless on the ground dying, and the cleric better get to work within x rounds. So a low level character MAY still die from the poison in a round or two, but thems the breaks of being a newbie Same with a medusa gaze- 1st round missed save- you take -1 penalty to all actions and you movement rate is halved. 2nd round missed save, -2 penalty and move is 1/4. 3rd round missed save, you are immobile. 4th round missed save, you've completely turned to stone.

Slow death & dismemberment is always more fun (for the DM anyway)



Thats just off the top of my head-you'd have to playtest a bit, but thats how I would do it.

 

[Imperialus]

Oh and to deal with the "Save or X" stuff our GM gave us all "Karma Points" at the beginning of the game. We got 3 at first level and 1 more each time we gained enough experience to go up a level as a Thief. It lets you force a reroll on anything, from a 'to hit' to initiative, to a saving throw.

 

[His Dudeness]

Make a stack of PC sheets. Have it ready when some sucker opens a coffer without checking it first. That is part of the fun, really. Not knowing what to expect.

Besides, chargen takes 5 minutes tops.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Facetious Reply: Multiply all the monsters' HP totals by ten, but leave damage alone. Gotta pad the combat encounters!

Serious Reply: The game has four spell-lists in it, for cleric, magic-user, druid, and illusionist? Find some way to make the druid spell list function as "fighter exploits" and the illusion list as "thief exploits." Then run the game with just four classes: cleric (casts clerical prayers), magic-user (casts magic-user spells), fighter (uses druidic spells as "fighter powers"), and thief (uses illusionst spells as "thief powers.")

...Now that I think about it, this is actually a really cool idea!