1st time Barbarian, Help!

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Forging ahead with the Elf...

Remember that the Elf gets higher Dex (translating to AC), and if you run with that.. (Dodge) and push for damage resistance, then he'll stand a long time.

Damage output would be similar to many other Barbarians.

Hit Points a bit lower.


Now, if you go with the RP aspects of it... 1 level of Wizard makes this fun. You can magically enhance his defenses. etc. A Transmuter can add one to a physical stat. A Universalist, can throw a weapon 30 feet. Did I mention the high crit two handed Elven Curve blade?

Sounds this elf barbarian may be fun for someone to play, but my mind is now stuck on my schtick for playing a big hulking guy (either a huge human or a half-orc) and not a little faerie elf

I really like [MENTION=20741]Steel_Wind[/MENTION] 's build and will probably end up going with that or something very similar!

I want to thank everyone who has posted so far and thanks for the link-backs to the barbarian handbook on this site, I didn't see that before and have read it over for some really great ideas.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Sounds this elf barbarian may be fun for someone to play, but my mind is now stuck on my schtick for playing a big hulking guy (either a huge human or a half-orc) and not a little faerie elf

I really like @Steel_Wind 's build and will probably end up going with that or something very similar!

I want to thank everyone who has posted so far and thanks for the link-backs to the barbarian handbook on this site, I didn't see that before and have read it over for some really great ideas.

If you do go with a Half-orc invulnerable rager, please appreciate that the only REAL reason to do this in Pathfinder is not the Orc ferocity as that's a pretty weak bonus, especially when contrasted to the alternative of doing it as a human and taking another feat instead. As between the two, I'd take a bonus human feat over Orc Ferocity any day.

However, the big plus you get from being a half-Orc is darkvision. That's HANDY. If you get an item which casts darkness, (an arm band, say - or something else) 3/day -- that is an advantage which can become HUGE for you. Depending on prevailing lighting conditions, you can gain partial or even total concealment from the foe and strike him while he is flat-footed within your darkness radius while suffering from no ill-effects yourself. That's a pretty ass-kicking advantage and is the best mechanical reason to be a half-orc instead of a human in Pathfinder, imo.

Otherwise, you are probably better off as a human barbarian, frankly, as the extra feat is hard to turn down.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I am really looking at hard at human right now because of heart of the fields, which is just really nice to have from what people say for barbarians. I'm still of mixed emotions on how I want to play the character and what would be best for damage output because I want to put the hurt on the DM's monsters this time around.

I've seen mixed opinions on even having cleave in the build some people saying it's only good through level 5 and then it's not worth it. Since I'm level 4 right now and it would only be good another level or so, is there a better way to maximize damage output? I do really like the idea of using enlarge person spells/potions to really take the fight to my enemies and it sounds like a very cinematic thing to do.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't do human for heart of the fields (I'd take the skill points). Do it for the favored class bonus on Superstition and get that and Ghost Rager rage powers, if going that route. You can end up with a really good save and touch AC bonus.

I agree with Steel Wind, you do Half-Orc for the darkvision, most of the other racial abilities are pretty weaksauce for you. Half-Orc is an ok race for an Intimidarian as well, I suppose. I don't know though, I used to be big on that sort of build, but have come to realize how poorly Intimidating Glare keeps up by mid levels (I admit through levels 1-5 it's actually pretty nice) and how utterly sucky Terrifying Howl just is in general. Seems like you're better off ignoring the fear-based rage powers entirely and just picking up Cornugon Smash, and later on, Dreadful Carnage.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned it, but as you get higher and higher in levels, raging becomes more suicidal b/c paizo decided to revert to 3.0's rule that going unconscious ends rage. As the number of HD you have and the con mod being multiplied increases, you face greater and greater risk of literal "sudden death." Instead of just eratta'ing the issue, paizo decided to turn the problem into a feat tax, so keep that in mind.

Definitely get Come And Get Me as soon as you hit Barb 12, I cannot emphasize enough how good that power is. If you hadn't felt the need for it before, pick up Combat Reflexes around then to use with it.

Finally, I think dipping one level of Oracle at level 9+ for the Lame curse is worthwhile for Fatigue immunity. You can then freely drop in and out of rage each round to get more use out of 1/rage powers, and never have to worry about not being able to enter a rage due to fatigue. Before then, look to get potions of Invigorate or a friendly Bard to cast it on you (or anyone with use magic device and a wand of it) to help out with fatigue.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Thanks for all the advice @StreamOfTheSky ! Some really great stuff in there.

A few questions:
What do you think about the cleaving build and going with enlarging the character?
Why take a few extra skill points instead of Heart of the Fields when you also get +2 to a profession and early on you can use HOTF to remove the fatigue prior to lame oracle?
If I'm using CHA as a dumpstat, it probably wouldn't be a great idea to go with Cornugon Smash, and later on, Dreadful Carnage would it?
I keep hearing that I need to get "CAGM" at level 12, but that after getting it the class isn't that great with rage powers to keep in it and I may want to multiclass out of it, but what other class would really compliment a 12 (invul rager)/1 (lame oracle)?
---Follow up to question above, if the only reason to do invul rager/lame oracle is to rage hop, would it be better to just do a different barbarian/(other class) build w/o the invul rager archetype?

Thanks!
Trav

 

[paradox42]

I keep hearing that I need to get "CAGM" at level 12, but that after getting it the class isn't that great with rage powers to keep in it and I may want to multiclass out of it, but what other class would really compliment a 12 (invul rager)/1 (lame oracle)?

The obvious answer to this question, regardless of Archetype on the Barbarian levels, is Rage Prophet. If you're multiclassing Barbarian and Oracle anyway, you may as well at least consider what you can do with Rage Prophet levels. True, as a 13th-level character with only one spellcasting level, your casting will be really weak, but Rage Prophet does give you some interesting abilities like the ability to cast Cure spells without using Moment of Clarity or ending your Rage, the ability to add your Barbarian level to your caster level, and the ability to add your CON modifier to the save DC of your spells (admittedly, this is at Rage Prophet 7, which would come for your build at 20th character level, but hey, pretty nice capstone considering how few things increase spell save DCs).

Of course, if you plan to go this route, the advice would be, don't dump CHA- you'll need it for Oracle casting.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

The obvious answer to this question, regardless of Archetype on the Barbarian levels, is Rage Prophet. If you're multiclassing Barbarian and Oracle anyway, you may as well at least consider what you can do with Rage Prophet levels. True, as a 13th-level character with only one spellcasting level, your casting will be really weak, but Rage Prophet does give you some interesting abilities like the ability to cast Cure spells without using Moment of Clarity or ending your Rage, the ability to add your Barbarian level to your caster level, and the ability to add your CON modifier to the save DC of your spells (admittedly, this is at Rage Prophet 7, which would come for your build at 20th character level, but hey, pretty nice capstone considering how few things increase spell save DCs).

Of course, if you plan to go this route, the advice would be, don't dump CHA- you'll need it for Oracle casting.

I was actually thinking of taking some kind of fighter or ranger build for those last 8 levels since our party make-up will have a full oracle (at least currently he's planning full oracle), so I'd probably rather go something that deals physical damage instead of usage/reliance of spells. We'll also have a bard, so there will be more spells flying around that way too.

Just not sure how to build a barbarian 12/ oracle 1 / 8 (melee/high damage class) or go a few more levels into barbarian. A lot of choices I know, I just wanted to find out what has been successful for others if they've gotten through an entire adventure path with a barbarian build or barbarian multi-class build.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Thanks for all the advice

No problem.

What do you think about the cleaving build and going with enlarging the character

I think paying 4 feats (plus Power Attack) for 3E's Great Cleave or 2 feats for 3E cleave is just too much to ask for on a class that gets no bonus feats. Or for anyone, really.

Why take a few extra skill points instead of Heart of the Fields when you also get +2 to a profession and early on you can use HOTF to remove the fatigue prior to lame oracle?

I like the skill points more. HOTF is only 1/day, and becomes pointless once you reach 9th level. I'd rather just rely on potions of Invigorate if at all possible before then.

If I'm using CHA as a dumpstat, it probably wouldn't be a great idea to go with Cornugon Smash, and later on, Dreadful Carnage would it?

Well, the obvious solution is to not dumpstat cha. Int isn't too important and human can offset a small penalty there for skill points. Wis is nice to have, but not essential, certainly no need to peg it above 12. You don't need high cha, either. Just don't put a 7 there or something if doing intimidation. Just sheer ranks + racial (Half-Orc) or Skill Focus (Half-Elf) can be enough, and there's a feat to add str modifier on the Intimidate check if you want. You don't have to make an intimidator, though, it's just one route to go.

I keep hearing that I need to get "CAGM" at level 12, but that after getting it the class isn't that great with rage powers to keep in it and I may want to multiclass out of it, but what other class would really compliment a 12 (invul rager)/1 (lame oracle)?

You're not the first to notice this. Yes, after CAGM, there are no more good rage powers to get and the end levels of the class are pretty pathetic. Honestly, the only mechanical reason to stay in past Barb 12 is being an Invulnerable Rager and thus getting decent DR out of it. If you're rage hopping (see you've been reading the handbook, heh) with Flesh Wound to turn one hit into half damage and nonlethal (with your class level as DR against it) once/round, that alone might be compelling enough to stay in. Strength Surge power with Knockdown power and rage hopping also benefits from staying in. But even with all of that stuff, multiclassing out probably is better.

I completely disagree on Rage Prophet, though. It sucks. Don't do it.

---Follow up to question above, if the only reason to do invul rager/lame oracle is to rage hop, would it be better to just do a different barbarian/(other class) build w/o the invul rager archetype?

Invulnerable Rager is the only outright good archetype, honestly. If you're staying in long enough for CAGM, you may as well be one. If you're getting out much sooner, I wouldn't do Invuln. Rager and keep the Uncanny Dodge. Do you want to be a mostly Barbarian? Even if your game reachs level 20 and you bail out on Barb at 13th level (Barb 12/ Oracle 1), you're still mostly a Barb at that point.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Thanks again for all the discussion and answering of my questions here [MENTION=35909]StreamOfTheSky[/MENTION] !

I'm almost rethinking the barbarian all together at this point to go with a fighter, fighter archetype, or ranger that wields a 2H sword (I can RP him as a barbarian if I need to w/o the raging) or a sword and board fighter using shield spikes and a good 1h (though I've been reading a bit about rangers doing this effectively as well), the biggest problem we have in the group is that there isn't a tank and we have an oracle that will be doing the healing. I'm starting to think that being a glass cannon isn't a great idea if we are to survive the bigger fights and that's why I was thinking the Invul Rager at first if I played any kind of barbarian.

If you have any suggestions on a good melee class that hits hard and can survive w/o the need of too much healing I'm all ears .... err eyes?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, Paladin.... They can swift action heal themselves for quite a bit many times per day and tank it up in full plate (I'd suggest going 2H and not sword and board, though, lest you end up being an unthreatening turtle the foes just walk around). Only use lay on hands on others in an emergency, it is much more useful on yourself in combat. And don't use it out of combat other than to top off people's hp at bedtime. The high saves, especially fort and will, means you won't likely get poisoned or dominated to turn on the party, also good tank qualities, fear immunity, and can heal status effects w/ mercy when needed, too.


If your DM isn't close-minded to new and exotic things and you want to try something different, I posited a dual shield ranger build idea a while back...