2 5th-level warblades: extra full attacks?

[Gargoyle]

I wonder whether the intent of the maneuver is to only allow characters to move who haven't yet taken their actions for the round--thus, if A's initiative count is 15, and the warblade's initiative count is 10, and B's initiative count is 5, the warblade could use WRT to get B to go immediately after the warblade, but couldn't use WRT with A. So construed, WRT is still a useful and significant maneuver, isn't it?

In any case, that's the house-rule I'd use.

It specifically states that if they've already taken their turn, they get to take another one, so it clearly intends to let them act again. But yeah, that sounds like a do-able house rule, and a good way to reign the maneuver in.

 

[RigaMortus2]

What you've written doesn't work, because both refreshing and using WRT are swift actions.

No book infront of me atm, but I beleive the Warblade can refresh all his maneuvers by doing either (a) melee attack + swift action or (b) standard action to do nothing. So if he opts for (b) he still has the swift action to use WRT, plus a move action as well.

Note: Unless I am mis-remembering and (b) is a Standard + swift action...

 

[chaotix42]

No, it is a swift action and a standard doing nothing, or a swift action and a melee attack.

Starwed, a swordsage who takes a full-round to recover a maneuver gains that maneuver "in the subsequent turn." Adaptive Style does not mention this however, and using Adaptive Style readies all of your maneuvers.

However, you won't be able to perform the combo you outlined because you cannot use WRT more than once in a round, as you are limited to one swift action a round. Regardless, even if you could take that many swift actions in a round your combo would dissolve into:

1. MA1 performs actions
2. MA2 performs actions, uses WRT on MA1
3. MA1 performs actions, uses WRT on MA2
4. MA2 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA1
5. MA1 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA2
6. MA2 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA1
etc.

Once it gets to step 4 it becomes illegal, because Martial Adept 2 used a swift action that round to use WRT at step 2. A Ruby Knight Vindicator could perform step 4 however, so if Martial Adept 1 had a really nasty attack routine or nifty trick that he could repeatedly perform, it could still end up being a devastating combo.

 

[RigaMortus2]

No, it is a swift action and a standard doing nothing, or a swift action and a melee attack.

Just got home and checked book, you are correct sir. Swift Action + Standard or Melee Attack

So you would need Adaptive Style to pull this off

 

[RigaMortus2]

However, you won't be able to perform the combo you outlined because you cannot use WRT more than once in a round, as you are limited to one swift action a round. Regardless, even if you could take that many swift actions in a round your combo would dissolve into:

1. MA1 performs actions
2. MA2 performs actions, uses WRT on MA1
3. MA1 performs actions, uses WRT on MA2
4. MA2 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA1
5. MA1 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA2
6. MA2 takes a full-round to recover WRT, uses it on MA1
etc.

Once it gets to step 4 it becomes illegal, because Martial Adept 2 used a swift action that round to use WRT at step 2. A Ruby Knight Vindicator could perform step 4 however, so if Martial Adept 1 had a really nasty attack routine or nifty trick that he could repeatedly perform, it could still end up being a devastating combo.

But at step 4, it is a new round for MA2. So you gain all your actions back (including the swift action). Seems like it would work fine.

 

[starwed]

If the wording of swift action was in fact "one per round," I might go along with that. But unfortunately it's "one per turn." If you get another turn, you get another swift action:

Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take.

(This is from the psionic SRD, I guess the version in TOB might have been updated.)

edit: Just to be clear, I was agreeing with RM2, and responding to chaotix's argument.

 

[RigaMortus2]

If the wording of swift action was in fact "one per round," I might go along with that. But unfortunately it's "one per turn." If you get another turn, you get another swift action:

(This is from the psionic SRD, I guess the version in TOB might have been updated.)

And you do get another turn, fight after WB2 for instance. In the PHB glossary, Turn and Round are used almost synonomously.

Turn: The point in the round at which you take your action(s). On your turn, you may perform one or more actions, as dictated by your current circumstances.
Round: A six-second unit of game time used to manage combat. Every combatant may take at least one action every round.

WRT changes your initiative count and specifically says you act on your new initiative count as normal. It also specifically says if you have already acted in the current round, you can act again.

 

[chaotix42]

Yeah, just double-checked. Unfortunately swift actions are doled out on a turn by turn basis, and WRT gives you a new turn! Ouch! XP

 

[airwalkrr]

Congratulations. This is the most solid loophole I have seen in years. It will be interesting to see whether or not this plays out to actually being legal though. I imagine there is someone out there looking at every angle after having an OMFGSFB! moment.

 

[brehobit]

Congratulations. This is the most solid loophole I have seen in years. It will be interesting to see whether or not this plays out to actually being legal though. I imagine there is someone out there looking at every angle after having an OMFGSFB! moment.

Woot!

I am PowerGamer, breaker of books.

OK, I just started people in the right direction. I should at least get "inspired by" credit.



(Post not after working a full day on your day off and then dealing with a sick child who throws up into your mouth and keeps you up much of the night. Turns out it's like posting drunk!)