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20 levels, 20 classes: Use or Abuse
- Thread starter Crothian
- Start date
Cthulhu's Librarian
First Post
I'd say it was abuse, but why would you ever want to do that, other than to say that you could? I don't even think I could come up with a concept that would allow for it. Well, maybe if the character is the result of 20 different minds all joined together into one, but that wouldn't be very fun to play. 
Crothian
First Post
This poll was inspired by a thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63471
Frank suggests on page 2 that a 20 level character can be made with 20 different classes that is better then a fighter. While that has no bearing on the poll, I just thought it sounded abusive were he beleives its using the rules.
As to if a lousy character can abuse the system, that is your judgement call. Go with gut reaction.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63471
Frank suggests on page 2 that a 20 level character can be made with 20 different classes that is better then a fighter. While that has no bearing on the poll, I just thought it sounded abusive were he beleives its using the rules.
As to if a lousy character can abuse the system, that is your judgement call. Go with gut reaction.
You know, when I made Jimmy Throckbottom, my 20th-level gnome who had levels in just about everything, I was pretty much joking.
Beyond the ramifications of HOW the character managed to get 20 classes -- I don't see him qualifying for many PrCs without the ability to get his BAB up there -- is how effective they'd be. I don't see him hitting very often or doing very much, spellcasting-wise -- although if you had enough of those +1 Spellcasting level classes, I guess you could add it up...
As a DM, of course I'd allow it, provided that the player could show me how they qualified for each PrC they took. I'd look forward to seeing if the player could pull it off, too.
Use, definitely. Might not be smart, but it's legal.
EDIT: Found Jimmy's stats and story. He's actually more Fort-Save based...
Jimmy Throckbottom was a tiny ol' gnome,
At a very young age the little feller lost his home,
When a big honkin' dragon swooped down upon same
And Jimmy's home town got swallered in flame.
So Jimmy hit the wild, he was small and wary and
For awhile he lived the life of a young Barbarian.
When a flock of giant wasps were in a stingin' mood,
Young Jimmy took his first big feat as Great Fortitude.
Jimmy's long adventures took him very far afield,
And over time he thought he'd sort of like to dual wield,
He was also old enough to think revenge was good to take,
So he levelled up in Ranger, favored enemy was drake.
But still there's more to life then telling dragons, "Arr, I hate ya!"
And all this travel gave Jimmy a passing love of nature,
So he made a change of heart, and some might say that he was fickle,
But he traded in his hand axe for a Druid's magic sickle!
By now our boy was known as being very hard to kill,
But a bunch of evil lizard-men were looking for a thrill,
So Jimmy he ran out of spells, and had to kill the blighters,
With his fists and blades and bonus feats, and so he levelled Fighter.
After fighting forces dark and killing creatures great and awful,
Young Jimmy realized that he was tending now towards Lawful.
He was sad to lose his rages, but when he sat down and thunk,
Ol' Jimmy, he decided he would rather level Monk.
Then a dragon, yep, the one who started this whole ballad, in
A place nearby was sighted. Jimmy levelled Paladin.
No ragin' and no druid spells, but it was still alright,
'Cause favored enemy stacks really well with smite!
Well, the battle lasted hours, but the dragon he got slayed,
And Jimmy fell upon his knees and thanked Mister Bright Blade.
For the rest of his long life, then, until he was deceased,
Ol' Jimmy fought for good and law, and did it as a Priest.
Jimmy "The Fort Save" Throckbottom: Gnome
Str:12(13 at 20th), Dex:16, Con:20(24 at 20th), Int:10, Wis:16, Cha:18
Levels:
Barbarian: 2
Ranger: 3
Druid: 3
Fighter: 3
Monk: 3
Paladin: 3
Cleric: 3
Saves:
Barb2 = F2, R0, W0
Ran3 = F3, R1, W1
Drd3 = F3, R1, W3
Ftr3 = F3, R1, W1
Mon3 = F3, R3, W3
Pal3 = F3, R1, W1
Clr3 = F3, R1, W3
Totals= F20, R8, W12
+ Con24, Dex16, Wis16
= F27, R11, W15
+Cha18
= F31, R15, W19
+Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Fortitude: +33
Reflex: +17
Will: +21
Ah, Jimmy. He could survive just about any kind of poison you could produce, but he still couldn't cast Fireball....
Beyond the ramifications of HOW the character managed to get 20 classes -- I don't see him qualifying for many PrCs without the ability to get his BAB up there -- is how effective they'd be. I don't see him hitting very often or doing very much, spellcasting-wise -- although if you had enough of those +1 Spellcasting level classes, I guess you could add it up...
As a DM, of course I'd allow it, provided that the player could show me how they qualified for each PrC they took. I'd look forward to seeing if the player could pull it off, too.
Use, definitely. Might not be smart, but it's legal.
EDIT: Found Jimmy's stats and story. He's actually more Fort-Save based...
Jimmy Throckbottom was a tiny ol' gnome,
At a very young age the little feller lost his home,
When a big honkin' dragon swooped down upon same
And Jimmy's home town got swallered in flame.
So Jimmy hit the wild, he was small and wary and
For awhile he lived the life of a young Barbarian.
When a flock of giant wasps were in a stingin' mood,
Young Jimmy took his first big feat as Great Fortitude.
Jimmy's long adventures took him very far afield,
And over time he thought he'd sort of like to dual wield,
He was also old enough to think revenge was good to take,
So he levelled up in Ranger, favored enemy was drake.
But still there's more to life then telling dragons, "Arr, I hate ya!"
And all this travel gave Jimmy a passing love of nature,
So he made a change of heart, and some might say that he was fickle,
But he traded in his hand axe for a Druid's magic sickle!
By now our boy was known as being very hard to kill,
But a bunch of evil lizard-men were looking for a thrill,
So Jimmy he ran out of spells, and had to kill the blighters,
With his fists and blades and bonus feats, and so he levelled Fighter.
After fighting forces dark and killing creatures great and awful,
Young Jimmy realized that he was tending now towards Lawful.
He was sad to lose his rages, but when he sat down and thunk,
Ol' Jimmy, he decided he would rather level Monk.
Then a dragon, yep, the one who started this whole ballad, in
A place nearby was sighted. Jimmy levelled Paladin.
No ragin' and no druid spells, but it was still alright,
'Cause favored enemy stacks really well with smite!
Well, the battle lasted hours, but the dragon he got slayed,
And Jimmy fell upon his knees and thanked Mister Bright Blade.
For the rest of his long life, then, until he was deceased,
Ol' Jimmy fought for good and law, and did it as a Priest.
Jimmy "The Fort Save" Throckbottom: Gnome
Str:12(13 at 20th), Dex:16, Con:20(24 at 20th), Int:10, Wis:16, Cha:18
Levels:
Barbarian: 2
Ranger: 3
Druid: 3
Fighter: 3
Monk: 3
Paladin: 3
Cleric: 3
Saves:
Barb2 = F2, R0, W0
Ran3 = F3, R1, W1
Drd3 = F3, R1, W3
Ftr3 = F3, R1, W1
Mon3 = F3, R3, W3
Pal3 = F3, R1, W1
Clr3 = F3, R1, W3
Totals= F20, R8, W12
+ Con24, Dex16, Wis16
= F27, R11, W15
+Cha18
= F31, R15, W19
+Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Fortitude: +33
Reflex: +17
Will: +21
Ah, Jimmy. He could survive just about any kind of poison you could produce, but he still couldn't cast Fireball....
Last edited:
FrankTrollman
First Post
My actual claim was no more than 2 levels of any class, and therefore a total of 10 classes in 20 levels.
Since the Fighter requires 2 levels to get 1 feat, it is of course most fair to stick with any class for 2 levels, get your bonus feat, your other bonus feat, and move on.
-Frank
Since the Fighter requires 2 levels to get 1 feat, it is of course most fair to stick with any class for 2 levels, get your bonus feat, your other bonus feat, and move on.
-Frank
Criminey. What's up with all the hataz? It's only abuse of the system if it lets you become too powerful relative to other people your level. Do you really think that someone with 1 level in 20 different classes is gonna be overpowering that single-classed wizard or wizard/archmage?
The only potential abuse of the system would be if the game were a "Save Intensive" game, in which case the PC would probably have an unfair advantage -- way too many high saves due to classes with that initial +2...
Still, with his most-likely-lousy BAB, I don't see this as a deal-breaker. You'd have to minmax your little skullduggering heart out to figure out a way for 20 different classes to work well for you... maybe hunting through all kinds of books until you got 16 or 17 good "+1 level of spellcasting" prestige classes that you could work your way through after you exhaust Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, and Bard.
The only potential abuse of the system would be if the game were a "Save Intensive" game, in which case the PC would probably have an unfair advantage -- way too many high saves due to classes with that initial +2...
Still, with his most-likely-lousy BAB, I don't see this as a deal-breaker. You'd have to minmax your little skullduggering heart out to figure out a way for 20 different classes to work well for you... maybe hunting through all kinds of books until you got 16 or 17 good "+1 level of spellcasting" prestige classes that you could work your way through after you exhaust Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, and Bard.
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