D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[dave2008]

OK, one more observation and then I need to do some work! This may not be the final layout, but I noticed the page number is 156. The ancient green in the 2014 MM is on page 93. That is a lot more pages before you get to the green dragon - I wonder what is filling them up!

 

[Sulicius]

Little bit of tangent, but I've run a lot of dragons, and the tricky thing about green dragons is that poison is the easiest damage type to mitigate, at least in 2014. Protection from poison is 2nd level for a bunch of classes and doesn't require concentration. If the party has a druid or cleric druid, heroes' feast can give the whole party immunity to poison for 24 hours, no concentration, no possibility or dispelling.

By the time my party was high level, they were eating heroes feasts for breakfast every day. 1000 gp per meal? They had more gold than they new what to do with.

Heroes’ Feast is nerfed to only give resistance to yo poison damage.

 

[Yaarel]

Interestingly, the Dragons are presented as aligned beings, like Celestials and Fiends are.

For the Green Dragon there is no "typically" Lawful Evil.

 

[Stalker0]

My general takes:

• I do like the new statblock format. Its tight and clean and gets the job done.
• The shift from legendary actions to reactions I am fine with if they keep this style, which ensures at least one reaction is pretty much always an option (in this case anytime a creature ends its turn where the dragon can see it). I do believe they have said conditions that don't deny actions won't deny reactions earlier in the playtest, so its fine and it uses existing mechanics more so I think its probably a better call.
• I like the high initiative and advantage for the creature. This creature is going to get QUICK, and that's good for a boss monster.
• Was hoping for a change to LR, but alas. It does its job, but man is it anti-climatic.
• I will also admit my first impression of the dragon damage is low. Yes its better than before, but dragon damage at high CRs was WAY too low, people just underestimate how much pain it takes to threaten a CR 15+ party. That said, the green is the most "controllery" of dragons, and a charm monster that can target 2 creatures (if the lvl 5 version of charm monster hasn't changed) pretty much after each person takes their action is pretty Hoss, though lets not forget PCs will have advantage on these saves since they are in combat.

this leads back to my innate problem with a lot of high level monsters....they rely too much on active defenses. I could see this dragon takes its first action to cast cloudkill on itself, so it not only does damage to the party but its very hard to take on. OR If this dragon gets its first few charm monsters off, then you have a party that literally can't attack the dragon, and it just takes them out one at a time. But if those saves fail (or the party just has immunity to charm through several high level methods)....than the dragon just isn't that tough. 21 AC and 400 hitpoints is NOTHING to a high level party, especially with the buffs they are getting in 2024.

I would like to some more passive abilities that are always functional, to ensure the dragon just can't get destroyed in one round if the dice don't go the DMs way.

 

[Demetrios1453]

OK, one more observation and then I need to do some work! This may not be the final layout, but I noticed the page number is 156. The ancient green in the 2014 MM is on page 93. That is a lot more pages before you get to the green dragon - I wonder what is filling them up!

It's going to be in the "G" section, not the "D" section as previously.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Just caught something. It gives more XP for being in its lair, but the CR doesn't change. That is...interesting. Wonder if that has wider ramifications.

The "this creature has a CR of X when in lair" disclaimer wasn't always on the same page as the stat block.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Some notes of my own:

I like how they break out the saves and initiative in the stat block. I do wish AC, HP, and CR were in larger print though.

No more "typically lawful evil"? Even Fizban's had the "typically" disclaimer in its dragon stat blocks. Are they backing off that a bit, presumably with a bigger disclaimer elsewhere in the book?

The art, as has mostly been the case, is amazing.

 

[dave2008]

It's going to be in the "G" section, not the "D" section as previously.

Oh no, I certainly hope not. But the math works out, dang I had hoped they dropped that idea.

 

[AnotherGuy]

this leads back to my innate problem with a lot of high level monsters....they rely too much on active defenses. I could see this dragon takes its first action to cast cloudkill on itself, so it not only does damage to the party but its very hard to take. OR If this dragon gets its first few charm monsters off, then you have a party that literally can't attack the dragon, and it just takes them out one at a time. But if those saves fail (or the party just has immunity to charm through several high level methods)....than the dragon just isn't that tough. 21 AC and 400 hitpoints is NOTHING to a high level party, especially with the buffs they are getting in 2024.

I would like to some more passive abilities that are always functional, to ensure the dragon just can't get destroyed in one round if the dice don't go the DMs way.

Agreed.
When hunting monsters, the party will come prepared with various resistances etc, so the charm and poison will mean little to nothing for a high-level party.

The damage is definitely low for my liking, and I hope they have rules built in for auto pushes/shoves for creatures of that size against smaller opponents. The ability to attack + cast is a nice improvement, but we were already doing this 5 years ago.

Where is the tail sweep? Look at that picture, why does a dragon like that not have a tail sweep?
WotC have a come a long way, but they remain 5-10 years behind in monster design IMO.

 

[dave2008]

The "this creature has a CR of X when in lair" disclaimer wasn't always on the same page as the stat block.

True, and dragons didn't have it at all in the MM. However, this statblock specifically calls out more XP in its lair, but not a different CR.