D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

​

 

[TerraDave]

I like it, it cleanly presents the dragon and gives it some interesting options. But speaking of CR, what does it mean in a case like this? 4 characters of what level would find this challenge? I think they would be lower than 20.

 

[dave2008]

It doesn’t conjure anything in my mind beyond a breath weapon since a miasma is something you smell, I.E. a gas. So, it’s literally a description of its breath weapon.

Miasma isn't limited to smells of course. It is more generally a vapor or gas, but so is cloudkill and many of other magical things. Not sure what your point is?

 

[dave2008]

I like it, it cleanly presents the dragon and gives it some interesting options. But speaking of CR, what does it mean in a case like this? 4 characters of what level would find this challenge? I think they would be lower than 20.

well that depends of course. This would be a serious threat for 4 PCs in the 15 level range IIRC.

 

[Scott Christian]

I also thought breath weapon damage and HP would go down, but they kept it the same and upped respectively.

Question: Why would the HP go down if they know PCs are going to do more damage?

And Cloudkill 2x a day - wow! Not sure if it was like that before, but that is going to mess up a castle encounter.

 

[dave2008]

Yes, it does. From the DMG: "When calculating a monster's damage output, also account for special off-turn damage-dealing features, such as auras, reactions, legendary actions, or lair actions."

It is a reasonable assumption that, given a party of 4 PCs, that at least 3 of them will damage the dragon on their turns, and that at least one of them will be within 15 feet of it. Much like it is reasonable to assume a 2014 Ancient dragon will have the chance to use all of its legendary actions.

Yes, but it doesn't give clear guidance on how to use them. IF you look at the features section of the DMG. Extra damage dealing actions (bonus actions at least) are typically only counted once per combat. It doesn't go into a lot of detail about reactions (IIRC).

However, I don't disagree with you that what you said (assume 3 rend reactions) is reasonable given how these are worded. However, the CR calculation suggests the official stance may be different.

 

[TiQuinn]

Miasma isn't limited to smells of course. It is more generally a vapor or gas, but so is cloudkill and many of other magical things. Not sure what your point is?

Okay here’s the point in the conversation where I point out that you are the one replying to me and what I thought about the part of the entry and that I’m not obligated to explain anything to you.

 

[dave2008]

Question: Why would the HP go down if they know PCs are going to do more damage?

Because they said they were re-balancing monster CR and the 2014 dragons had lower CRs for their actually rating. This was caused mostly by having high defense (AC, HP, saves, and LR).

And Cloudkill 2x a day - wow! Not sure if it was like that before, but that is going to mess up a castle encounter.

Nothing in the old statblock, but option rules for spellcasting let it cast fewer total spells, but any you wanted!

 

[dave2008]

Okay here’s the point in the conversation where I point out that you are the one replying to me and what I thought about the part of the entry and that I’m not obligated the explain anything to you.

Oh sure. I just thought we were having a conversation. Not trying to upset you.

 

[Scott Christian]

Because they said they were re-balancing monster CR and the 2014 dragons had lower CRs for their actually rating. This was caused mostly by having high defense (AC, HP, saves, and LR).

Ah, I see. Thank you.

 

[mellored]

It doesn’t conjure anything in my mind beyond a breath weapon since a miasma is something you smell, I.E. a gas. So, it’s literally a description of its breath weapon.

There is more than one way to emit gas...