20th level commoner?!

[Thanael]

i got to thinking about NPC classes, and once again i got in trouble trying to reconcile d&d with reality. how do 1st level commoners survive in the monster-infested wilderness? why does a child have just as many hit points as a grown man? why does a cat have half that many? how can a 1st level expert produce a masterwork mithral bastard sword?

and so, i've decided that in my next game, there won't be any 1st level characters at all, barring children. all PCs and NPCs will start out with three levels of an NPC class. that means more hp, more skill points (representing knowledge gained through experience), higher saves and BABs, but no feats. a PCs first heroic class level will actually be his fourth level. how would this affect the game?

You got too many 1st level people running around. IMO 1st level (N)PCs are children or adolescents. This is supported by the starting ages for PC classes. As Sound of Azure mentioned NPCs gain XP too.

I think that the NPC classes were invented for exactly that. In 2E you had all those 0-lvl humans running around who would die if you so much as looked at them. 3e takes nice care of that. A commoner will advance to level 2 or 3 at least, perhaps level 6 when he dies of old age. Age modifiers will do their part to keep some of his abilities like hps and fighting ability stagnating (or even deteriorating) between levels 3 to 6 while his life experience increases his skills and abilities (feats). Check out the examples in the threads above. Level 1 commmoners have to be either very young or very inexperienced IMO.


See also SKR's Theory about peasants and the great Level advancement over a lifetime, and the Common Commoner discussions.

Also MavrickWeirdo's:
Commoner over a lifetime
NPC guard over lifetime
Elf Commoner over a lifetime
NPC Expert over a lifetime
Expert vs. Commoner over a lifetime
Runners

and Blackdirge's:
Orc warrior NPC throughout his life
Gnoll NPC adept throughout his life and beyond
Half-Ogre Wizard NPC throughout a lifetime


Turanil's D100 NPC thread has lots of very interesting Everyday NPCs, among them:
VERY HIGH LEVEL BASIC NPCs
Toothless Joe, high level commoner

 

[Phlebas]

in another thread (Can't find it so no link)

someone calculated that on 1xp / day you progress from 15 years of age as follows

teenager = 1st level
20-30 = 2nd level
30-40 = 3rd level

etc etc

so if you assume most people you meet are commoner 2/3/4 depending on age, or equivalent expert if they have a craft / profession

however PC's and special people start a profession in their teens (hence PC class) and, unless the DM puts in time breaks, probably end up epic in their early twenties. That negates the need to give them NPC classes - they really do start as lightweight wanna-be heroes and have to grow into it

if you want to start a little more heroic, then KO at 4th level or so - you still have 16 levels of progression to game. why bother forcing NPC classes unless the plot is 'survivors of happy village decimated by dragon attack pick up wand / sword and then seek vengeance'

(IMC I ran a 'prequel' adventure to introduce the pc's to each other at 1st level. they adventured & earnt XP, i then let 4 game years pass and they went up to 4th level in the interim and the main plot line started with some more challenging encounters)

 

[green slime]

You've been thinking too much.

Otherwise known as:

"There is no spoon."

 

[Thurbane]

Because the chance that a dagger stab will kill either one is not that different.

But your idea of 3 commoner's levels is not bad. However, how about replacing the commoner's levels with class levels as the character advances? Something like, eg for a Wizard:

At no xp (not yet a PC), you're Commoner 3
At 0xp, you're Commoner 2 / Wizard 1
At 1000xp, you're Commoner 1 / Wizard 2
At 3000xp, you're Wizard 3

and so on.

That's a really good concept!

 

[notjer]

I think the key problem is in the levels.

If we could imagine for a second that hit points were NOT tied to levels but completely indipendent, they wouldn't be so unrealistic IMHO.

But as soon as they are linked to levels, it gets problematic. Same with skill ranks tied to level, for example!

There is no key problem, it is just your imagination!

You are suppose to have fun while playing D&D, not be frustated due to dead characters If you still need a reason which somehow works, then watch anime or read manga like bleach, naruto, Dragonballs, and similiar seria with the foundation of spirituel toughness. That is my proposal.

At no xp (not yet a PC), you're Commoner 3
At 0xp, you're Commoner 2 / Wizard 1
At 1000xp, you're Commoner 1 / Wizard 2
At 3000xp, you're Wizard 3

Nice idea. However I would only start it with a level 2 commoner instead of yours level 3. I just think 3 HD is too much for level 1. It's a matter of taste i guess.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

I do not bother to stat up minor NPCs. But I would never use the Commoner class, even for someone which it might be appropriate for.

 

[Thanael]

But I would never use the Commoner class, even for someone which it might be appropriate for.

Well that makes a lot of sense. :\

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Well that makes a lot of sense. :\

I don't have to make sense because I'm beautiful!

 

[Thanael]

To each their own.

in another thread (Can't find it so no link)

someone calculated that on 1xp / day you progress from 15 years of age as follows

That would be from MavrickWeirdo's thread "NPC Commoner over a lifetime".

My way of advancing NPCs is a bit simpler, I call it "Learn something new every day".

A human starting at age 15 (adulthood per PHB page 93) NPCs get 1 exp/day, 365 exp/year. Their level advancement would look something like this

age 15 is level 1
age 18 is level 2
age 24 is level 3
age 32 is level 4
age 35 is “middle age” –1 S, D, & Co; +1 I, W, & Ch
age 43 is level 5
age 53 is “old age” –2 S, D, & Co; +1 I, W, & Ch
age 57 is level 6
age 70 is “venerable” –3 S, D, & Co; +1 I, W, & Ch
age 73 is level 7
age 92 is level 8

Maximum age for humans is 110

(I rounded up to the next year on the levels) I also included ageing effects from the PHB page 93.

This thread will give an example of a NCP at each of these stages.

 

[Tetsubo]

To each their own.



That would be from MavrickWeirdo's thread "NPC Commoner over a lifetime".

Oh boy, I level up next month to 5th level...