D&D 5E (2014) 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Hohige]

Bless your heart.

The minute you declare an a hostile action, Initiative is rolled.

Alas, you don't get to surprise a wizard with Alert. Tut, tut.

Ok.
You Saw nothing
Your turn.

Im still waiting your prepared spells, Race and feats.

 

[Eltab]

• The barrier of the warded area appears dark and foggy, preventing vision (including darkvision) through it.

So how are you able to see in, to target the Wizard?

The Wizard checks which side of the zone the lightning bolts are coming from - because he can see the bolts after they pass the barrier and enter the zone - and heads off the other way. You cannot see him going, because you are on the ground.

BTW you are going to run out of SPs for subtle-casting Private Sanctum before the 10-minute casting time is done, so the Wizard will eventually hear you (if he decided to stick around).

 

[prabe]

Ok.
You Saw nothing
Your turn.

Im still waiting your prepared spells, Race and feats.

Oh, you're funny.

How long has your sorcerer been preparing?

 

[Hohige]

So how are you able to see in, to target the Wizard?

The Wizard checks which side of the zone the lightning bolts are coming from - because he can see the bolts after they pass the barrier and enter the zone - and heads off the other way. You cannot see him going, because you are on the ground.

BTW you are going to run out of SPs for subtle-casting Private Sanctum before the 10-minute casting time is done, so the Wizard will eventually hear you (if he decided to stick around).

The Bastion is insiste The Sanctum. He can see normally.

When you use subtle spell you remove S, V componente for that spell. Its only 1 SP.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

With regard to initiative being rolled, here is the relevant part:

Does surprise happen outside the initiative order as a special surprise round?​

No, here’s how surprise works. The first step of any combat is this: the DM determines whether anyone in the combat is surprised (reread page 189 of the Player’s Handbook). This determination happens only once during a fight and only at the beginning. In other words, once a fight starts, you can’t be surprised again, although a hidden foe can still gain the normal benefits from being unseen (see "Unseen Attackers or Targets" on page 194 of the Player’s Handbook). To be surprised, you must be caught off guard, usually because you failed to notice foes being stealthy or you were startled by an enemy with a special ability, such as the gelatinous cube’s Transparent trait, that makes it exceptionally surprising. You can be surprised even if your companions aren’t, and you aren’t surprised if even one of your foes fails to catch you unawares. If anyone is surprised, no actions are taken yet. First, initiative is rolled as normal. Then, the first round of combat starts, and the unsurprised combatants act in initiative order. A surprised creature can’t move or take an action or a reaction until its first turn ends (remember that being unable to take an action also means you can’t take a bonus action). In effect, a surprised creature skips its first turn in a fight. Once that turn ends, the creature is no longer surprised.

In short, activity in a combat is always ordered by initiative, whether or not someone is surprised, and after the first round of combat has passed, surprise is no longer a factor. You can still try to hide from your foes and gain the benefits conferred by being hidden, but you don’t deprive your foes of their turns when you do so.

 

[Hohige]

Oh, you're funny.

How long has your sorcerer been preparing?

Alert is completely useless against Bastion.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Alert is completely useless against Bastion.

It's true. Since Alert prevent being surprised and nobody can ever be surprised without DM fiat, Alert is useless (except for the bonus to Initiative, in order to blast with AoE spells. In a regular game were surprise is a thing, Alert defeats it.

By RAW, it works like that:

Non-surprised fight sample against a stealthy dispellers (for example, because Wizard is Alert or because Surprised doesn't exist by lack of DM fiat).

BEGINNING OF ROUND
Initiative is rolled, Sorcerer rolls 12, Wizard rolls 14.
Wizard gets initiative and acts on count 14. as he saw nothing, he just readies an action "Teleport away as soon the situation sours." and tells to his Simulacrum to ready an action "Meteor Strike the ground around you whenever an hostile action is taken".
Stealthy dispeller cast dispel magic
Readied actions. Wizard teleport, the whole area is blasted by a meteor swarm, possibly, but not necessarily, including the dispeller, his simulacrum, his DMM... according to the luck of the blasted area selected.
Stealthy dispeller finally dispels the Simulacrum, who turns back to snow.

End of Round.

while, against a surprised wizard it would be:

BEGINNING OF ROUND
Initiative is rolled. Sorcerer rolls 12, Wizard rolls 14.
Wizard gets Initiative, but being Surprised, he can take no action this round.
Stealthy dispeller casts Subtle Polymorph, which the Wizard couldn't affect even with a reaction (because surprise)
End of Round.
Depending on whether the save worked or not, there might a need for a second round, in which case everything is back to normal.

 

[Hohige]

It's true. Since Alert prevent being surprised and nobody can ever be surprised without DM fiat, Alert is useless (except for the bonus to Initiative, in order to blast with AoE spells. In a regular game were surprise is a thing, Alert defeats it.

By RAW, it works like that:

BEGINNING OF ROUND
Non-surprised fight sample against a stealthy dispeller. Initiative is rolled, Sorcerer rolls 12, Wizard rolls 14.
Wizard gets initiative and acts on count 14. as he saw nothing, he just readies an action "Teleport away as soon the situation sours." and tells to his Simulacrum to ready an action "Meteor Strike the ground around you whenever an hostile action is taken".
Stealthy dispeller cast dispel magic
Readied actions. Wizard teleport, the whole area is blasted by a meteor swarm, possibly, but not necessarily, including the dispeller, his simulacrum, his DMM... according to the luck of the blasted area selected.
Stealthy dispeller finally dispels the Simulacrum, who turns back to snow.

End of Round.

Lets see.
You are surprised If the creature wins your passive perception.
When a hidden creature attacks you, automatically revealing himself. So, roll initiative.
Without Alert, you can't move or use reaction.
With Alert, It means that you have move action and reaction, nothing more.


The initiative was rolled because the Rogue came out of the Hidden condition. This does not happen with Subtle Spell.
Subtle spell doesnt reveal the hidden creature. So, no initiative for you.


"The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone Hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other Members aren’t."

The Initiative was never rolled.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

Lets see.
You are surprised If hidden creature attack you, automatically revealing himself.
Alert is great against Rogues.

But Subtle spell doesnt reveal him. It isnt a surprised turn, you remain hidden, its an undetected spell.
Its useless against Subtle Spell.

You are not surprised, good.
"If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other Members aren’t."


The initiative will never be rolled out, as Sutil Spell does not reveal his position. The most you can do is use a reaction and move if the initiative rolls.

I very strongly disagree

Just because I can't see you, does not mean I don't know you are there, and just because I don't know you are there, does not mean you can surprise me, just ask any Combat Vet.

The rules around the Alert feat specifically and literally say the character cannot be surprised, in essence the character has nerves of steel and can be ready to act on instinct if necessary. As soon as the sorcerer player declares intent to initiate combat, initiative is rolled. As far as I know, there is no freebie round where PC's or NPC's get to act freely and do whatever they want. If a character is surprised, he simply looses the ability to act on his first turn, it does not mean initiative is not rolled.

In short, Alertness eliminates surprise from the equation, both roll initiative and proceed as normal.

 

[Hohige]

I very strongly disagree

Just because I can't see you, does not mean I don't know you are there, and just because I don't know you are there, does not mean you can surprise me, just ask any Combat Vet.

The rules around the Alert feat specifically and literally say the character cannot be surprised, in essence the character has nerves of steel and can be ready to act on instinct if necessary. As soon as the sorcerer player declares intent to initiate combat, initiative is rolled. As far as I know, there is no freebie round where PC's or NPC's get to act freely and do whatever they want. If a character is surprised, he simply looses the ability to act on his first turn, it does not mean initiative is not rolled.

In short, Alertness eliminates surprise from the equation, both roll initiative and proceed as normal.

"The rules around the Alert feat specifically and literally say the character cannot be surprised, in essence the character has nerves of steel and can be ready to act on instinct if necessary. As soon as the sorcerer player declares intent to initiate combat, initiative is rolled. As far as I know, there is no freebie round where PC's or NPC's get to act freely and do whatever they want. If a character is surprised, he simply looses the ability to act on his first turn, it does not mean initiative is not rolled."

I very strongly disagree.
It means that you can use move and reaction on first turn . Nothing more. Not being surprised is just that and nothing more.
"I am never surprised."
Congratulations, you can move and reaction on your first turn. That's it, nothing more.

So, you can't roll initiave against hidden creatures and undetected subtle spells for obvious reasons, it remains hidden.