D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Zio_the_dark]

Duplicating spell of 8th level or lower doesn't have that effect.

Corrected. Again.

 

[Hohige]

Corrected. Again.

What the problem about that?
Standard Planar Bind can be upcasted to level 9 for sweet 1 year and a day of control.

Wished Planar Binding is 180 days but It's an action to cast.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

Sorcerer can easily with a simple Subtle Wish, to duplicate the effects of Planar Binding spell level 9.

The problem is that you said that you can wish for 9th level planar binding did you already forget??
Ah well feeblemind I did not remember

 

[Nitrosaur]

You also forgot to address the dragons, pal, so unless the DM-Pwease machine also known as the Bastion can deal with them, he isn't a threat to any world, as the dragons wouldn't even alow it. Even if it could bind Sul, and it can't do so, no planar bound army can even begin to stand up against an entire continent of ancient spellcasting dragons.

Just so you are aware of how utterly stomped your Sorcerer is, or ANY PC would be. Countless numbers of ancient dragons, many of which are better spellcasters than the Bastion.

You compared Sul with Mewtwo. Well, then the Bastion would be like a trainer with Mewtwo and around 100 mid level pokemon, like Nidokings, against literally countless Rayquaza, Lugia, Giratina and however many ber-legendary pokemon you want. Not twice as many dragons as members of your planar bound army, not ten times as many. Countless.

You just can't win, pal.

Edit: And before you start to declare it takes countless dragons to defeat the Bastion, no, iy doesn't. It's just that the wyrms of Eberron don't fight, they annihilate. They would send ten times the force needed to destroy edgelord and his slaves, just to send a message to the rest of the world. You don't mess with balance, or get turned into dragon poop. Quite a fitting end to the Bastion, actually.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Several objections... (over a few posts).

First, I don't want to ruin your parade, but the last build you provided had this, according to your own admission.

Spells
1 - Armor of Agathys, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor
2 - Aid Spell, Pass without trace
3 - Counterspell, Dispel, non detection, Eruption Earth
4 - Dimention Door, Banishment, Polymorph
5 - Seeming Spell, Wall of Force, Skill Empowerment
6 - Freezing Sphere, Disintegrate, True Seeimg
7 - Etherealness, Reverse Gravity, Teleport, Plane Shift
8 - Demiplane
9 - Wish

I don't see Planar Binding among the list. So, unless he Wishes for it, which can totally replicate a spell cast at 8th level, the sorcerer can't cast Planar Binding without cheating. If you want to provide an update to the build, feel free to do so.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Subtle control:

Sorcerer can easily with a simple Subtle Wish, to duplicate the effects of Planar Binding spell level 9.
If the creature has an advantage on saving throws, Clockwork's Restore Balance overrides this effect. As the effect has no visual effect, described in Xanathar's rules.
The creature does not become hostile because no hostile magic has been seen by the creature.

If the creature has Legendary Resistence. Destroy this resistance with Subtle Spells, forcing the creature to use its LR. This can spend a lot of resources, but it is important to dominate powerful creatures.

Legendary resistance is 3 times a day. You'd need to be able to Planar Bind 4 times a day. There is very little chance a creature of a high power level would waste a LR on countering a low level, non life-threatening spell.

The command is given through telepathy. The creature feels compelled to follow the command, leaving no trace of manipulation:

"Wizards are your mortal enemies, destroy them with your best abilities."

You just ordered Sul Khatesh to kill you. He's going to twist your orders, you should really make a passable effort to word your orders tightly. Given the polysemy of the term wizard, which is defined as :

Definition of wizard​

(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : one skilled in magic : sorcerer

I can see that your plan will end the threat to Foggy Bottom without anyone becoming involved (as happened already several times).

Stealth Casting + Subtle Control:
The most important point here is to avoid the creature's Hostility.
With unbeatiable stealth check and subtle casting.
It allows The Bastion casts Subtle Planar Binding several times a day, without even revealing itself or making the creature hostile,
the creature is simply compelled to obey a telepathic command, without traces of magic or manipulation.

You might want to note that Sul Khatesh has truesight as a sense, not by a spell. And that his Charisma save is made at +15, and as the sorcerer has 16 CHA, is save DC is 17. 95% of the time, it will fail and reveal you without even using LR.

This also allows, through Subtle Dominate Person, Bastion to have any Simulacrum he wants. That simple.

Free Mind Blank: The Sorcerer casts Polymorph into Traxigor that is a beasts. Now, He has access to free Mind Blank and Plane Shift. Twinned Polymorph, means 2 Mind Blank per spell.

Polymorph doesn't work like that you know? First, Traxigor is a 17th level Wizard polymorphed into an otter. Have you played or ran Descent in Avernus? Otters can't cast spells, you know?

If somehow Polymorph was deemed through "DM, pwease" able to polymorph into a 17th level wizard because wizards can polymorph into beasts, then you have proven that it's very effective to be a 17th level wizard, which kind of defeated the point of proving the claimed superiority of the sorcerer if his most powerful feature at level 20 is to become, temporarily, a 17th level wizard. That's another win for Team Foggy Bottom. Of which Traxigor probably was before he elected to become an otter.

Plus, such a transformation wouldn't be very useful since Polymorph states that "and it can't speak, cast spells" so... no you can't.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Yeah. I would think that establishing the setting would be DM Fiat, and deciding a character would encounter Sul Khatesh would be DM Fiat, and deciding a character can get a Planar Binding to work against her would be DM Fiat.

Indeed. Especially how to find her. The Sorcerer's limited investigative abilities will certainly fail him where many structured parties in the setting would kill for the information. I am very interested in the techniques used to find a freaking Overlord.

Also, if I'm reading things correctly, he'd have to do this every day, and if the planar binding were to somehow be dispelled ... I suspect things would go badly for the character who bound her.

This is ... not a very good plan--and absolutely not free of DM Fiat, even if it is.

Yes... it's not very good ;-)

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

The bastion cannot be defeated by it. But this is an expensive Pokemon (Meo two?), spending all resources to break the LR and Bind it, subtly. I will repeat, subtly and silent Planar Binding.

Do you think Sul Khatesh would stand idly while you repeatedly try to Planar Bind him and order him to kill wizards?

 

[prabe]

Indeed. Especially how to find her. The Sorcerer's limited investigative abilities will certainly fail him where many structured parties in the setting would kill for the information. I am very interested in the techniques used to find a freaking Overlord.



Yes... it's not very good ;-)

Even aside from the fact that I bet the sorcerer ends up getting killed by at least members of his own army, if not the whole army. This is probably revealing a bias, but I don't really much care: I'd probably help a player with a high-Int character phrase orders/commands to the bound creatures, so the character got what they wanted; I'd be a good deal less inclined to help a 10-Int character do so.

The order he's given, as phrased, gets the sorcerer killed.

 

[prabe]

Do you think Sul Khatesh would stand idly while you repeatedly try to Planar Bind him and order him to kill wizards?

Because you're essentially trying to bind Magic Incarnate, as I understand the write-up (I dunno the setting much). That seems extremely unlikely to work out well for you.