D&D 2E [2e] Monster Mythology Update Project

[Cleon]

One of the neogi deities detailed in the article “The Ecology of the Neogi,” in Dragon #214, Kr’tx the Flaming Master is that race’s deity of war. It is an unsubtle brute of a neogi, and favored by the umber hulks the neogi keep due to its brutality.

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Jeff

The wizard spells' asterisk note has "Numbers assume one extra elemental water spell per spell level". Since he's a Fire Elementalist surely that should be fire spells?

Also there's either a missing sentence fragment or extraneous "the." in "conducts the ritual repetition of the bargain’s terms, and the. The two slaves are sacrificed in flame."

Methinks this was most likely meant to be "conducts the ritual repetition of the bargain’s terms, and the two slaves are sacrificed in flame."

 

[AuldDragon]

The wizard spells' asterisk note has "Numbers assume one extra elemental water spell per spell level". Since he's a Fire Elementalist surely that should be fire spells?

Also there's either a missing sentence fragment or extraneous "the." in "conducts the ritual repetition of the bargain’s terms, and the. The two slaves are sacrificed in flame."

Methinks this was most likely meant to be "conducts the ritual repetition of the bargain’s terms, and the two slaves are sacrificed in flame."

Thanks for the corrections! I'll look them over and get a new version of the document uploaded shortly.

Jeff

 

[AuldDragon]

Cador the Shadow Knife is a virtually unknown dwarven deity of revenge and hatred, not truly part of the Morndinsamman, but also acting as a dark reflection of the pantheon as a whole. He only shows up in a single 1st Edition adventure, Nigel Findley’s “Caermor” from Dungeon #2 (and reprinted in 2nd Edition’s Dungeon anthology release, “Dungeons of Despair”). I expanded upon the slight details there to make Cador a full-fledged deity.

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Jeff

 

[AuldDragon]

Daughter of Titania and Oberon, Verenestra the Oak Princess possesses an unearthly beauty that is dimly reflected in the nymphs, dryads, and sylphs of the Prime Material Plane that worship her. She is a flightly and vain, but ultimately cares deeply for her faerie folk.

If you’ve been enjoying these entries, please consider supporting the project on Patreon or Ko-Fi.

Jeff

 

[AuldDragon]

Another of the neogi deities from Dragon Magazine #214, Kil’lix the Ambitious represents the cutthroat nature of neogi advancement. He is a god of death, and teaches his followers to gain power through poison and murder.

If you’ve been enjoying these entries, please consider supporting the project on Patreon or Ko-Fi.

Jeff

 

[Cleon]

Another of the neogi deities from Dragon Magazine #214, Kil’lix the Ambitious represents the cutthroat nature of neogi advancement. He is a god of death, and teaches his followers to gain power through poison and murder.

Glancing through the text, I noticed a few minor issues:

Kil'lik has no hp value listed (its entry says "HP hit points").

I was momentarily confused by the "×2" in the attack line's "(claw/claw/bite × 2)" until I saw the "#AT 6" above it and realized the neogi deity attacks twice per round with each of its two claw attacks and bite attack.

The Special Att/Def having "those struck by the claw attacks" be a subsentence of the "In melee" sentence reads a trifle clumsily, especially as the subsequent "Any victims of Kil'lix's venomous bite" is a sentence in its own right.

If it were up to me, I'd expressly state Kil'lik attacks at double speed in melee and cut the "In melee" sentence at the first semi-colon so the description of the chilling claws' special attack becomes a separate sentence.

Something along the lines of "In melee, Kil’lix fights with a pair of chilling claws and a venomous bite; striking with such blinding speed it attacks twice per round with each set of claws or teeth. Those struck by the claw attacks…"

Apart from those quibbles, it's great work (like normal!).

 

[AuldDragon]

Glancing through the text, I noticed a few minor issues:

Kil'lik has no hp value listed (its entry says "HP hit points").

I was momentarily confused by the "×2" in the attack line's "(claw/claw/bite × 2)" until I saw the "#AT 6" above it and realized the neogi deity attacks twice per round with each of its two claw attacks and bite attack.

The Special Att/Def having "those struck by the claw attacks" be a subsentence of the "In melee" sentence reads a trifle clumsily, especially as the subsequent "Any victims of Kil'lix's venomous bite" is a sentence in its own right.

If it were up to me, I'd expressly state Kil'lik attacks at double speed in melee and cut the "In melee" sentence at the first semi-colon so the description of the chilling claws' special attack becomes a separate sentence.

Something along the lines of "In melee, Kil’lix fights with a pair of chilling claws and a venomous bite; striking with such blinding speed it attacks twice per round with each set of claws or teeth. Those struck by the claw attacks…"

Apart from those quibbles, it's great work (like normal!).

Thanks, I got the hit points and a couple other things updated. I also checked the standard used in the other books, and moved the x2 to better reflect the positioning; it's not due to speed, but because of his fighter levels. I updated the page and the PDF. I'll need to think a bit about the rest, but I appreciate the suggestions!

Jeff

 

[Cleon]

Thanks, I got the hit points and a couple other things updated. I also checked the standard used in the other books, and moved the x2 to better reflect the positioning

For the sake of full disclosure, at first glance I interpreted "claw/claw/bite × 2" as meaning Kil'lik made two claw attacks plus two bite attacks per round.

Changing it to "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 ×2 (claw/claw/bite)" is better but could be interpreted as meaning its 2d6 bite damage is doubled (i.e. 4-24 damage in 1E format).

Perhaps "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 2×(claw/claw/bite)" or "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw/claw/bite)×2" would be clearer? Or stick in an extra pair of parenthesis for "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw/claw/bite)(×2)".

I wondered about "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw×2/claw×2/bite×2)" to make it clear that each attack was doubled, but that seems clunky.

it's not due to speed, but because of his fighter levels.

To the best of my knowledge, the increased melee attacks granted by high fighter levels normally don't increase the number of natural attacks a creature does.

Look at the Great Spirit Avatar on page 18 of Legends & Lore - it's a 14th level ranger (granting two melee attacks per round) but the Great Spirit's bear Avatar has three attacks with "Dmg 1d8/1d8/1d12 +7" which are presumably a claw/claw/bite like a regular bear.

On a related topic, just having extra arms doesn't multiply the fighter melee attacks in 2E. The Kali Avatar on page 134 manifests as a "four-armed woman" but only has #AT 2 like a regular warrior of her level (fighter 16).

Hence my assumption that the six attacks per round must be due to a special ability, such as natural haste.

Incidentally, I think an Avatar of Kali should have at least twice as many attacks as a normal 16th-level fighter. Shouldn't her extra arms symbolise her divine ability to do more than any mundane mortal can? If a mere Marilith demon can make six melee attacks per round by striking once with each arm, one would think a Four-Armed Goddess would be able to do more than one-third that number!

I updated the page and the PDF. I'll need to think a bit about the rest, but I appreciate the suggestions!

Glad to be of service!

 

[AuldDragon]

For the sake of full disclosure, at first glance I interpreted "claw/claw/bite × 2" as meaning Kil'lik made two claw attacks plus two bite attacks per round.

Changing it to "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 ×2 (claw/claw/bite)" is better but could be interpreted as meaning its 2d6 bite damage is doubled (i.e. 4-24 damage in 1E format).

Perhaps "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 2×(claw/claw/bite)" or "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw/claw/bite)×2" would be clearer? Or stick in an extra pair of parenthesis for "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw/claw/bite)(×2)".

I wondered about "1d6+1/1d6+1/2d6 (claw×2/claw×2/bite×2)" to make it clear that each attack was doubled, but that seems clunky.

Well, that's why the "Number of Attacks" entry is included; the two need to be looked at together, while understanding how attacks are handled by the rules. The main issue is that the existing books aren't that consistent, with Urdlen listed as "4d6 x2 (claw)" for his two claws, which I would always list as "4d6/4d6 (claw/claw)." On the other hand, Lurue is "blah x2/blah x2/blah x2 (hoof/hoof/horn)" which is much too clunky. Putting the x2 absolutely last might be best now that I've thought more about it.

To the best of my knowledge, the increased melee attacks granted by high fighter levels normally don't increase the number of natural attacks a creature does.

Look at the Great Spirit Avatar on page 18 of Legends & Lore - it's a 14th level ranger (granting two melee attacks per round) but the Great Spirit's bear Avatar has three attacks with "Dmg 1d8/1d8/1d12 +7" which are presumably a claw/claw/bite like a regular bear.

For monsters, yeah; however, gods don't always play by the same rules. Sometimes they get their Strength bonus, sometimes they don't, sometimes they get the fighter attack routine, sometimes they don't, etc. Legends & Lore is the most inconsistent of all the books however; I try to base my stuff on what is in Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Because Neogi generally can't use weapons, I'll be giving the fighter attack routine to the ones who would be deadlier in physical combat.

Jeff

 

[Cleon]

Well, that's why the "Number of Attacks" entry is included; the two need to be looked at together, while understanding how attacks are handled by the rules. The main issue is that the existing books aren't that consistent, with Urdlen listed as "4d6 x2 (claw)" for his two claws, which I would always list as "4d6/4d6 (claw/claw)." On the other hand, Lurue is "blah x2/blah x2/blah x2 (hoof/hoof/horn)" which is much too clunky. Putting the x2 absolutely last might be best now that I've thought more about it.

Well if Number of Attacks were handled consistently in 2E we wouldn't be having this problem.

Early edition D&D's exception-based rules has many charms but ease of interpretation is not one of them!

Putting the ×2 last after a closing parenthesis was my preferred solution - as in "(hoof/hoof/horn)×2". I agree that sticking ×2 after each attack is just too clunky.

For monsters, yeah; however, gods don't always play by the same rules. Sometimes they get their Strength bonus, sometimes they don't, sometimes they get the fighter attack routine, sometimes they don't, etc.

Well it's not just AD&D's Gods that sometimes get their Strength bonus on non-weapon melee range attacks like claws in early editions, there are a few monsters that play by their own rules even in 1E AD&D. The Daemons from Fiend Folio (1981) and Colchiln from Mordenkainen's Magnificent Adventure (1984) are the earliest examples that come to mind.

The Colchiln was doubly confusing since according to its description in WG5 it has a Strength bonus ON TOP OF a +3 base damage bonus ["strengths range from 18/01 to 18/00, but the creatures gain only the +3, +4, +5, or +6 damage bonus (add to the base ld6+3 points of damage)"] while its encounter in that module has a Dmg stat that is a bit sloppily phrased ["Dmg 4-9 per claw, Str 18/75 but with no bonus to hit"], since it'd be easy to see that 4-9 and think the 1d6+3 is just 1d6 base damage and +3 for its Strength 18/75.

If it gets 1d6+3 base damage from its adamantine claws plus +3 for Strength I'd prefer "Dmg 1d6+6 per claw, Str 18/75 but with no bonus to hit" there.

Legends & Lore is the most inconsistent of all the books however; I try to base my stuff on what is in Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Because Neogi generally can't use weapons, I'll be giving the fighter attack routine to the ones who would be deadlier in physical combat.

Yes, the 2e god-books that came out after Legends & Lore do become somewhat more consistent in presentation although there are still plenty of glitches - like Nobanion's Avatar in Powers & Pantheons who's lion form claw/claw/rear claws/bite don't get ×2 attacks despite being a 23rd level paladin and 19th level ranger.

As you pointed out, Lurue in that source gets ×2 attacks as she's a 17th level ranger. One would think Nobanion would strike at least as quickly as the Unicorn Queen in melee. They're both Demipowers, and Nobanion has many more warrior levels than Lurue and is the "King of Lions and Strong Beasts" and a "Guardian".