[3.0] Wall of Iron stupidity

[der_kluge]

From the SRD:

SRD
If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 25 + 2 per inch of thickness.

If the character desires, the wall can be created vertically resting on a flat surface but not attached to the surface so that it can be tipped over to fall on and crush creatures beneath it. The wall is 50% likely to tip in either direction if left unpushed.

Creatures can push the wall in one direction rather than letting it fall randomly. A creature must succeed at a Strength check (DC 40) to push the wall over.

Ok, so let me get this straight. I can put up a 1" thick wall in a field, and to bust through it, I only need a strength DC of 27, but to push it over, I need a strength DC of 40?!? I'm better off just doing nothing, and waiting for it to fall over, at least I've got a 50% chance that it will fall the direction I want it to. And if I push on it with a strength check of 39 (not good enough to push it over), it doesn't do any good, and it still might fall on me. So, you've got a dragon on one side of it, and a sprite on the other side. Sprite pushes on wall, and gets a strength check of 10 - fails to push it over. Dragon gets a strength check of 39 and fails to push it over. DM rolls - oh sorry dragon, the wall falls on your head, but that's ok, because it can't crush creatures greater than size large, even though it's 100 feet tall, and 10 feet wide and 1 inch thick (20th level caster), and weighs, well who knows how much it ways. The rule doesn't say. But it lasts forever, so you can refine it into weapons and tools, and never have to mine iron ore again.

Heck, even if the dragon punched a hole clean through it (which he would have done even if he hadn't intended to do so with his check of 39), it might still have fallen on his head.

Puh-lease.

 

[mmu1]

Ability checks in general, and Strength checks in particular are pretty badly implemented in 3E.

When 1st level spells have Strength check DCs that'll give some of the smaller giants serious trouble, you've got a problem...

 

[Sejs]

But it lasts forever, so you can refine it into weapons and tools, and never have to mine iron ore again.

Yep! Heh, same as how you can build a castle in the middle of nowhere with enough Wall of Stone and Stone Shape spells and never have to quarry a single ounce of rock.

 

[hong]

Ok, so let me get this straight. I can put up a 1" thick wall in a field, and to bust through it, I only need a strength DC of 27, but to push it over, I need a strength DC of 40?!?

The push DC is set with take 20 in mind.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Yep! Heh, same as how you can build a castle in the middle of nowhere with enough Wall of Stone and Stone Shape spells and never have to quarry a single ounce of rock.

Well spooky old wizards have a hard time finding help in the middle of nowhere, they have to build their towers somehow

 

[DreamChaser]

Re: Re: [3.0] Wall of Iron stupidity

The push DC is set with take 20 in mind.

you would still need a +20 modifier to make that.

that's a strength of *does calculations* 50+

DC

 

[Saeviomagy]

Actually the thread title makes this sound like a new spell:

Wall of iron stupidity

Casting a wall of iron stupidity spell produces an impenetrable barrier between the caster and the outside environment. Nothing the caster is unaware of can breach the wall, including surprise attacks, physical laws or new concepts.

It's often thought that this spell has a real-world counterpart that affects many forum and usenet posters.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: [3.0] Wall of Iron stupidity

you would still need a +20 modifier to make that.

that's a strength of *does calculations* 50+

Yep. So if you're really strong but not quite that strong, you can't push it over, but you can make a hole in it. Which makes perfect sense to me. A catapult stone isn't going to make a castle wall topple over, but it can make a section collapse.

 

[DreamChaser]

sure...but something that weighs tons and is only an inch or two thick would be (relatively) easy to topple. In fact, the effort of beating a hole in it would probably unbalance it and make it fall. Unless of course said wall is only a couple of feet tall.

DC

 

[Tellerve]

eh, castle walls are set sturdily into the ground, a wall of iron isn't. Hence castle walls don't have a 50% chance of toppling inwards and killing the castle guards or falling outwards and killing the marauding barbarians.

Also, how long before the wall of iron tips to one side? Because I wouldn't allow a take 20 if in two rounds the wall of iron falls on you. Take 20 is used when there is no penalty for your action. Granted there is no inherent penalty, as you can't actually push it over, but the wall falling over on you would make you pressed for time. I know I would be a bit worried about the iron wall. Eh, then again i could just make myself like a little needle and punch through the steel....yeah that must be it, problem solved

Tellerve