D&D 3.x [3.5] Archer changes

[Kai Lord]

My post was trying to say that in a mechanical argument, you have to use all the mechanics at your disposal, whether you consider them obscure or not.

Well then let's just say that both the Archer and the Swordsman will use their Ring of Three Wishes to wish they were better than the other guy and call it a night.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, I'm curious--what are the other ways?

Lion's Charge...

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

Because the tripod is doing work that the shooters should be doing. You can lean on crutches, but that doesn't mean you'll run faster than someone who doesn't use them.

Who defines what "should" be? Are we all to take your word on it? The question in the end is what is effective in the field. If you can always use the tripod, then figure it into the equation. Do you think any military ever says "no, we shouldn't invest in this technology, even though it will make use a better fighting force, because our soldiers can do it themselves." None that wants to win.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well then let's just say that both the Archer and the Swordsman will use their Ring of Three Wishes to wish they were better than the other guy and call it a night.

Not a valid wish They could get a +3 inherent bonus to their Prime ability, or three 15k gp items...

( I wish for Bracers of Archery!)

-Hyp.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Well, what about Power Attack? That's a common enough feat for melee fighters.

Okay, let's examine it (I have absolutely no idea what the results will be as I type this, by the way. It will be a surprise to me either way):

We'll check out Power Attacking for +1, +3, and +5, if that's okay with you.

Gary is normally +19/+14, so Power attacking for +1, he's +18/+13, Power attacking for +3, he's +16/+11, and Power attacking for +5, he's +14/+9.

His damage at +1:

2d6 + 15, 17-20/x2 = 26.4

Damage at +3:

2d6 + 17, 17-20/x2 = 28.8

Damage at +5:

2d6 + 19, 17-20/x2 = 31.2

Opponent with AC 20

• 
  Gary Power attacking for +1 damage: Hits 95% of the time, hits 70% of the time = .95 * 26.4 + .7 * 26.4 = 43.56 damage
  
  Gary Power attacking for +3 damage: Hits 85% of the time, hits 60% of the time = .85 * 28.8 + .6 * 28.8 = 41.76 damage
  
  Gary Power attacking for +5 damage: Hits 75% of the time, hits 50% of the time = .75 * 31.2 + .5 * 31.2 = 39 damage.
  
  (Gary not power attacking still equals 42.84 damage per round)
  
  (Bob at his least advantageous equals 34.03 damage per round)

Opponent with AC 25

• 
  Gary Power attacking for +1 damage: Hits 70% of the time, hits 45% of the time = .7 * 26.4 + .45 * 26.4 = 30.36 damage
  
  Gary Power attacking for +3 damage: Hits 60% of the time, hits 35% of the time = .6 * 28.8 + .35 * 28.8 = 27.36 damage
  
  Gary Power attacking for +5 damage: Hits 50% of the time, hits 25% of the time = .5 * 31.2 + .25 * 31.2 = 23.4 damage
  
  (Gary not power attacking still equals 31.5 damage per round)
  
  (Bob in his worst-case scenario does 27.09 damage per round)

For Gary, then, who has a high base damage, Power Attacking is not very useful unless he's fighting extremely low AC creatures. Someone who had a lower base damage would benefit more from Power Attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Because the tripod is doing work that the shooters should be doing.

But so is a +5 longbow.

Either magic is a crutch, or it isn't.

How is an Enhancement bonus "cheating" less than a Luck bonus or Competence bonus?

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

For Gary, then, who has a high base damage, Power Attacking is not very useful unless he's fighting extremely low AC creatures. Someone who had a lower base damage would benefit more from Power Attacks.

I knew Power Attack wasn't all that amazing.

Do you figure in crits in your analysis?

 

[Mike Sullivan]

I grant you that the analyses were weak in terms of stat buffers, as one might expect the characters to have +4 or +6 buffs in their stat.

It's a big thorny issue that I don't really want to get into. Suffice it to say:

If the characters just get a larger bonus to Str or Dex, respectively, that favours Gary.

If the characters get bonuses to both Str and Dex and Bob has access to a Mighty bow, that favours Bob (despite the *1.5 damage scaling for Gary, a +1 to damage for Bob results in a greater percentage increase in his damage. Trust me).

For whatever it's worth.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Do you figure in crits in your analysis?

Yessir, they're fully figured (including reducing the chances of 'em when, for example, your crit thresh is 17-20, but you only hit on an 18).

If you were fighting an opponent which wasn't subject to crits, that would make Bob (the archer) slightly better than he's shown in the analysis, because Gary gets more "oomph" out of crits, because they're a multiplier of base damage rather than an addition to it, and Gary's base damage is higher.

 

[Kai Lord]

But so is a +5 longbow.

Either magic is a crutch, or it isn't.

How is an Enhancement bonus "cheating" less than a Luck bonus or Competence bonus?

-Hyp.

Like I said earlier, there are tools and there are crutches. A weapon is a tool. A +5 weapon is the best version of that particular tool. An item that controls your arms while you use the tool is a crutch.

But that's cool that you like Bracers that do so much of the work for you. Maybe you can make them your cohorts since they should be getting experience for all the monsters they kill in defense of your meager skills.