3.5 D&D or really 4.0!!!

satori01 said:

ne statement that kinda chaffs my hide is the whole "you dont have to buy 3.5" bunk. See I doubt WOTC wants you to feel that way. Wizards is smart, they provide the SRD so if you dont want to you dont have to buy 3.5 right now, you can peruse the SRD, hopefully get comfortable with the changes and decide to bite the bullet and buy the books.

Alrighty then...

Nice conspiracy theory.

Wanna buy a tinfoil hat?

;)

BTW, The SRD has much more to do with the d20 lisence than conspiring people to get comfy with the rules. Very small minority of gamers even know of the SRD, and even smaller fraction actually uses it in their games. Just check the "this doc must be illegal!" threads in WotC boards.
 

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frankthedm said:
i would say 4th.

The 1e and 2 stuff are about as compatable to each other as 3e and 3.5

*blink*

That's not even vaguely how I remember it...

There were some basic, fundamental system changes from 1st to 2nd. A whole lot of classes were cut or changed drastically. Heck, even the basic combat rules changed to an extent.

3 to 3.5 tweaks details. The fundamental game is exactly the same.
 

Again I only wear the tinfoil hat because it make me feel sexy, not to block out alien mind reading.

With that said, of course the SRD is mainly a D20 thing
(but then again the D20 thing is a brillant piece of buisness design to ensure one never strays that far from D&D, beyond also being a very progressive idea, progressive and good buisness are not mutally exclusive), but just because delinating SRD content may be the main reason for it, doesnt mean it is the only reason, most people and organizations have multiple motivations concerning their actions, this is a good thing(tm) :)

Hell Rich Baker pretty much said the same thing in a recent interview.

http://www.gamingreport.com/print.php?sid=9344

some relvant quotes from the article:

The SRD is available in its entirety to clearly delineate what the open game content of D&D consists of. Yes, you could choose to use the SRD and not buy our Player's Handbooks, but we think that most folks will vastly prefer having a bound, illustrated copy of the rules.

The answer is simple: We drive sales of the core rulebooks. We want everyone playing RPGs to buy a copy of the PH, DMG, and MM. By encouraging other publishers to adopt our system for their use, we create the largest possible pool of d20 system players.


A lot of people have also pointed to the SRD as the justification for the "you dont have to buy it" sentiment, literaly pointing to the SRD as a free upgrade. My money is with Rich Baker though on wether people will eventualy buy hardbound books if they start using the 3.5 SRD.

Hmm, maybe I'm not so crazy after all :)
 

I bought the revised editions of the Core books, and I am happy with them, and with most of the changes that were made.
I also, as some others, own Many (over 30) of the D20 (3.0) books- from Forgotten Realms (all of them), to the AEG supplements. Yes, some things are changed, but I would think that would be expected of a "revision." I do not see nearly enough changes to the system to even consider these to be considerable as a new edition, and here is why:
-Rounds work the same- what you can do in 6 seconds you can do in a round, (better than the previous, absolutely ludicrous 1 minute rounds)- there are still full round actions, standard actions, free actions, and move equivalent actions. Only partial actions are gone for they were redundant, and the system in no way changes with there absence.
-There have been very few changes to the races, and the very insignificant ones that were made, fit completely within the same system
-Class abilities have been altered/improved where they needed to be, and still fit perfectly within the same exact system. I am still using base attack, and getting a defined bonus determined by the class I take, I am still using Fort, Ref, and Will saves, bonuses again being determined by the class I take.
My experience chart is exactly the same (still for all classes/multi-classing/prestige classes- which are also still a part of the system
The flow of combat remains the same- I roll spot (determine if there will be a surprise round), I roll initiative at the beginning of the first regular round, and I will go again on that same initiative count each following round (provided I don’t use a delay action, or some other SAME mechanic)
I still benefit from any Feats I may have for the combat (which I still receive every 3rd level), I will still attack using my Base attack bonus +ability mod +enhancements, and the DC will still be the AC of the creature I am attacking. I can still threaten a critical, differing for what weapon I may be using.
Some creatures are still immune to critical hits.
Ability score damage works the same way (and some things are immune)
I still compare my level to the CR (EL) of a monster/encounter to determine experience awarded.
I still take a standard action for casting a spell. Concentration checks are still required for certain circumstances.- Oh, I still gain a certain number of skill points per level, determined by my class, and some skills may still be cross class, and my max ranks in a skill are Still my character level +3.
I still need a feat to make magic items, I can still use metamagic feats to alter my spells (:eek: and alter the levels of my spells- a good argument as to why the changes to some Spells' levels were merely insignificant, while entirely necessary and beneficial)
I can go on and on listing all the information on Why this system is exactly the same, but I really don't need to.

If I have played 3rd edition D&D, and know how to make a character, what Base attack is, what Saves are, what feats and skills are, What AC and Initiative is, how the combat round works (actions I can being full-round, standard and move, etc.), and how all this works to make the system, then I also know Exactly how the revised edition (3.5) works.

THAT is why this is D&D 3rd edition Revised, NOT 4th edition.

Oh, and I must add, this: The fact that you play a D&D game, no matter the "format" (Living Greyhawk or what have you), you are in NO WAY forced to buy the revised Core rulebooks (anymore than you are Forced to play in Living Greyhawk). Secondly, even IF you, for some psychological dilemma, where not able to stop playing in Living Greyhawk, you are Still not required to buy the new books for the availability of the SRD.
 

I was forced to wait because 2e sucked so bad.

Hi Numion, if 2nd Ed sucked so bad for you and you had such a lousy time at it, why did you ever bother to continue playing it, especially on the premise that you didn't know about a 3rd Ed coming out. Go play GURPS then.

BUT, most importantly, please re-read...

"There is NO, I repeat! No bashing about the 3.5 Ed rules released, if anything, its nice to see some of those changes. The issue is it should be called or Not called 4th Edition D&D! A very trivial, but debateble topic. Yes?" It's all a matter of opinion.

I'm glad to hear you like the 3rd Ed, how do you feel about 3.5?

but...

...could get to your senses and just play the edition you like.

Ah yes, senses ;) ... I enjoyed 2nd Ed AD&D, unlike you, I was sceptical of 3 Ed D&D, unlike you...apparently, and I've some reservations on how the 3rd Ed rules were, just like I had for 2nd Ed when I played 1st Ed. I enjoy the games I play now, just as much as I did in my past. The rules for D&D (AD&D) are a guideline, if they were...
All the unnecessary restrictions and inconsistencies made it unplayable for us.
...so restrictive, bend them, create house rules, make the game fun! Creative licence is not a crime for your own game that you bought!

I apologize if I've ruffled your feathers Numion. Have fun playing the game, after all it is a great game and yes, with each successive Edition, it does get a little better. Thus this 4th Ed D&D is better than the 3rd!
but will be improved upon in time. Bet'cha there will be a 5th Ed D&D if WotC stay afloat with the system.
:D

Oh and the veggie thing, forget it! You didn't get it! :rolleyes:

...and as for you mouseferatu, you a blood sucking rodent? Please tell me that this 3.5 (aka 4th Ed) didn't change any of the classes or races???

"Look, it's that famous bard Sniflebottom the story tell'in Gnome!":D
What's up with that!


Cheers! :D
(ooo how I enjoy this banter) :p
 

Tu-shae Daedrova. See, you explained yourself and defend your opinion well. I would like to add that the old THAC0 and combat system didn't change much from 1st to 2nd, niether did the classes or races change much either, the principle of the game has held all the way into this 4th Ed..ehm, my apologies, 3.5 Revised "Edition", RPG'n and having fun! :)

Question? to all... who has played all 3 Editions (with some time under the belt... or over it :D ) and can understand my comparison of 1st to 2nd and 3 to 4 (aka 3.5)? Now I do admitt, the changes are not as dramatic for the 3 to 4 (aka 3.5), but they are still changes.

:D
 

Ancient Gamer said:


Hi Numion, if 2nd Ed sucked so bad for you and you had such a lousy time at it, why did you ever bother to continue playing it, especially on the premise that you didn't know about a 3rd Ed coming out. Go play GURPS then.

Uh, I didn't play 2e. That's why I said I didn't play D&D until 3e came out. We played WFRP, Traveller, CP2020, hell even Rolemaster! ;)

I'm glad to hear you like the 3rd Ed, how do you feel about 3.5?

3.5e is not worth the money, IMHO, because I already own 3e books.

I apologize if I've ruffled your feathers Numion.

I'm not bragging, but with my post count here at ENWorld it's pretty hard to get worked up at each semicoherent rant.

Oh and the veggie thing, forget it! You didn't get it! :rolleyes:

Not the only thing "I didn't get" in your rant :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

I have not played all 3 editions of D&D. I started playing during 2nd edition, after the revised rules were in stores.
Honestly, I did not play the game because I liked the system. Rather it was that all of my friends played D&D, and I liked the concept of the "role-playing game", so I began to play with them. I detested things like "the 1 minute round", and other non-sense mechanics like ThAC0... and I thought the "saving throw mechanics" were just too much (add/insert descriptive insult here).
Anyway, all of these things were changed from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. All Huge, wonderful changes to the way the game worked. I now play D&D, and run D&D games because I like it.
When I am looking at whether this should be considered a new edition, I compare to the changes made from 2e to 3e.
When looked at from that perspective, there is really no question.
However, I did not play 1st edition D&D. I would like to see the comparison in how, or to what degree the system was changed so I can analyze them myself. Still, even from those who did play then, I hear that the changes were greater from 1e to 2e than 3rd ed to 3.5.
Perhaps this is Ancient Gamer's chance to give some viable supporting argument. ;)
 

Would 1e Unearthed Arcana qualify as 1.5 or a new edition?

I would say the class changes in 3.5 are less than what happened in UA.

Square facings and the new DR are the big culprits of signifigant change in my book. Most of the changes fall under alterations.
Sure those alterations require time to learn, or relearn as the case may be, Call it D&D re-education camp :)

I think many people forget how many rules were shed from 1e to 2e, because frankly most people didnt use them.

Weapon speed in 1e adjusted how many attacks you were entitled to in a round, if you werent wearing a helm you had a 1 in six chance of getting hit in the head by any succesful attack with deleterious effects, weapon versus armor adjustments were core rules not optional as in 2e, a fighter could have up to his level in attacks against 0 level opponets and so on and so forth.

2e was initially an attempt to streamline the often contradictory or hard to adjucate rules of 1e, basicaly they made the game more like how people really played it.

I remember a scenario in 1e were I had to try to calculate how many attacks a 5 level fighter in full plate mail armor wielding a dagger, specialized in said dagger, was entitled to against 3 0 level opponents, hmm 5 for the dagger speed plus 5 for his level plus his 2/1 attack base, let me just say it was sick.
 

hey, RoleMaster was cool!
it's pretty hard to get worked up at each semicoherent rant.
The thought that you were getting upset never crossed my mind :rolleyes:

Not the only thing "I didn't get" in your rant
Over your head, I understand. Are you a halfing purchance? Because I thought the rant was relatively straight forward.

To each there own. I never meant to offend your sensabilities.

:D
 

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