D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Damage Reduction discussion

[ruleslawyer]

IMHO, epic needs to be +6, or else you've just allowed GMW to do what it's always done, vis-a-vis creatures with "epic" DR: Bypass considerations of DR entirely.

 

[der_kluge]

DOK, I suppose you're right, the EPIC DR is irrelevant as it will likely never come up in play.

And I don't have a problem with the adamantine DR in theory, but I think it just means that the players are going to have to carry around adamantine weapons "just in case".

As such, I'm going to make the DR of golems "adamantine OR +3 magic".

I still intend to retain the 3.0 Dragon DRs, however.

 

[Shirt Guy John]

Really, as adamantine is now, I don't think anyone will carry one around "Just in case". It is a valuable tool, if not in combat, than as a means of "problem solving" the barbarian way. If a character has the money, I can't see them -not- wanting an adamantine weapon. Heck, I'd want one just because they would probably hold some level of prestige in the world.

When I first read what the changes were going to be to damage reduction for 3.5 I was just disgusted. Now that it's out, I love the whole thing, and I think that it can give a more "heroic" feel to combats against those creatures with damage reduction.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Of course not! Adamantine weapons ignores hardness less than 20, but adamantine itself has a hardness of 20. Adamantine armor grants DR, based on the volume used. So a true 3.5 Adamantine Golem would have DR X/-, making it very formidable.

**snip**

Think of Adamantine as possessing two extraordinary qualities. One is the ability to retain an incredibly sharp edge (ignoring hardness of less than 20), the other bieng incredible hardness itself. Don't try to associate the two.

The problem is, Adamantine ignores 20 points of hardness. Adamantine has 20 points of hardness.

Adamantine cuts through adamantine like butter.

This doesn't seem dramatically appropriate to me. I think either adamantine should ignore 10 points, or it should have a hardness of 40.

And the hardness of the adamantine is what bypasses hardness, not its edge-- otherwise, why would an adamantine mace or morningstar ignore hardness? An Adamantine Golem would have DR X/adamantine, with X being the difference between adamantine's hardness and its ability to ignore hardness.

 

[Lela]

The problem is, Adamantine ignores 20 points of hardness. Adamantine has 20 points of hardness.

Adamantine cuts through adamantine like butter.

Doesn't it say less than 20 (meaning 19 and below) and has no effect on items with hardness of 20 or above?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Doesn't it say less than 20 (meaning 19 and below) and has no effect on items with hardness of 20 or above?

It could be interpreted that way.

Damned ambiguous, the way it's worded, though. Your interpretation works better than either of my fixes, though.

 

[Drawmack]

Maybe you should read the section in the MM on creating new monsters and the section in the conversion manual on converting monsters.

They changed a lot with DR right down to the way it is assigned.

One of the biggest changes IMHO is that now you will never see DR above 15 and you won't even see that except in high CR monsters. Now when was the last time you say a 13+ level wizard, figher, barbarian or monk that couldn't do more then 15 points of damage in a round.

You no longer NEED the right weapon to overcome the DR, but it does make the job a heck of a lot easier.

I can see a fighter carrying around a couple different weapons just in case but mostly not. They'll carry the one that works most of the time and the rest of the time they'll just hack a little more.

Now tell me is anyone unpleased that vampires can only be hurt by wood and lycanthropes can only be hurt by silver?

 

[der_kluge]

Now tell me is anyone unpleased that vampires can only be hurt by wood and lycanthropes can only be hurt by silver?

No, I think the new demon/devil/undead DR ratings are uber-cool. I mostly just have a problem with the Dragon and the golem DR ratings.

 

[Paragon]

I like the 3.5 DR rules. i really do

Paragon

 

[Kerrick]

Now tell me is anyone unpleased that vampires can only be hurt by wood and lycanthropes can only be hurt by silver?

Vampires' DR is good and silver, not wood.

I'm still a little wishy-washy on the new DR system - some of it's kinda cool, but some of it's silly. I hate to keep beating that old dead horse, but you practically have to have one weapon of every type to survive anymore. Course, we invented a spell that alters the weapon's material type temporarily, which saved our collective ass when we fought a couple bodaks (DR 10/cold iron), but still...

+1/+2 et. weapons are still desirable, but for a different reason now - they enable you to do enough damage to get around the DR, and for those of us who aren't tank fighters, we need the bonuses almost as much as (or more than) we need the extra doodads. Looks like whatever they intended to "fix" didn't work too well in that regard...