D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Eldritch knight abilities?

[Jalkain]

Fighter's BAB is nice, but combined with the spellcaster levels you needed to qualify, you're still a few points short of a dedicated warrior. You probably won't be wearing armor, and will need magic items and spells to boost AC, and you don't have the hit points to stay too long in combat.

That's my feeling as well. Considering how a lot of buffing spells now have reduced durations, this class might struggle in many combats. Hitpoints are mainly a mix of d4 and d6, so high AC is vital, but I can't see how you're going to get it.

I really like the idea of fighting wizards. I just don't think this is quite what I had in mind.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

That's my feeling as well. Considering how a lot of buffing spells now have reduced durations, this class might struggle in many combats. Hitpoints are mainly a mix of d4 and d6, so high AC is vital, but I can't see how you're going to get it.

I really like the idea of fighting wizards. I just don't think this is quite what I had in mind.

Sounds to me like you would probably want to be an archer or other support fighter.

A Fighter 1, Wizard 5, EK 4 would be casting as an 8th level Wizard at 10th level, and would have a BAB of +7/+2 (3 below a Fighter 10's +10/+5). Hit points and BAB wouldn't be too far away from a Rogue's, and AC probably wouldn't be too far off either. Support fighter.

 

[LokiDR]

Loki:

Wasn't there just a quote from one of the WotC people who said, frankly, "Multiclassing is broken for spellcasters. We looked and we looked, but we couldn't come up with a general solution we could live with. So we put in PrC's which sort of generally do what the absent general solution ought to."

That would tend to indicate that they aren't putting these PrC's in for flavor.

I understand the need for PrC that make a non-viable multiclass into a decent option. I accept and agree with this.

But, look at the game as a game. Do you really want to play a class that is nothing more than two others mixed together, at a slightly faster rate than multiclass? Is that interesting or compelling? Just because they made the option technically viable, it is not an interesting choice. It isn't unique. It is just faster than the alternative.

Eldrich knight needs some sort of arcane failure reduction. Not really for balance. Because it fits, is interesting, is unique in core rules, and remains balanced. Casting from full plate is not a huge bonus, else the cleric would really be over powered. It isn't a huge bonus, but it something that that character has that no one else does, normally.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

I understand the need for PrC that make a non-viable multiclass into a decent option. I accept and agree with this.

But, look at the game as a game. Do you really want to play a class that is nothing more than two others mixed together, at a slightly faster rate than multiclass? Is that interesting or compelling? Just because they made the option technically viable, it is not an interesting choice. It isn't unique. It is just faster than the alternative.

Sure. Of course I do. I also like playing Fighter/Rogues.

Don't get me wrong -- I'd be happier (much happier) if they put a general solution into place. I don't particularly like the proliferation of PrC's as "cheap fixes" to every little system problem in the game.

But I'd like to play a Fighter/Wizard. The multiclassing rules do everything short of actually kicking me in the 'nads to prevent me from effectively playing a Fighter/Wizard. Why would I turn down a PrC that lets me effectively play a Fighter/Wizard, just because that PrC has no more flavor than the Fighter/Wizard that I freakin' want to play in the first place?

 

[LokiDR]

But I'd like to play a Fighter/Wizard. The multiclassing rules do everything short of actually kicking me in the 'nads to prevent me from effectively playing a Fighter/Wizard. Why would I turn down a PrC that lets me effectively play a Fighter/Wizard, just because that PrC has no more flavor than the Fighter/Wizard that I freakin' want to play in the first place?

If they are going to make a class, there should be some effort to make that class unique. Every class should have some flavor. If it is that bland, why not just give you extra levels to play with in multiclassing?

I don't think the PrC is dumb, I think it is boring. It is workable, but could so easily been nifty and workable.

 

[DM_Matt]

Casting from full plate is not a huge bonus, else the cleric would really be over powered.

The cleric isnt really overpowered?

 

[Mike Sullivan]

If they are going to make a class, there should be some effort to make that class unique.

That's the thing. They aren't making a class. They're making a system-level patch to the failures of Fighter/Wizard (or Barb/Sorc, or whatever) multiclassing.

If they made it unique, it wouldn't be a stand-in for Fighter/Wizard multiclassing, it'd be its own thing. That's not what it's there for. It's not supposed to have its own special flavour.

Now, again, if what you're saying is, "Boy, a PrC is a pretty lame way to include a system-level patch for the failures of Fighter/Wizard multiclassing," then I agree. However, having taken a shot at creating a general solution to this sort of thing, I also understand where the WotC staff is coming from when they say, "We can't figure out a way to get there from here." So we're stuck with two bad options for people who want to have a Fighter/Wizard:

1. They can be told, "No, tough luck, we aren't going to let you do it."

or

2. A lame patch of some kind can be put into place.

 

[LokiDR]

The cleric isnt really overpowered?

No more than the bard is underpowered.

 

[LokiDR]

1. They can be told, "No, tough luck, we aren't going to let you do it."

or

2. A lame patch of some kind can be put into place.

If you are going to make a patch, it should be interesting as well as useful. What good is nearly full spellcasting if you can't be knightly and wear armor while doing it? It isn't overpowered. It just helps the multiclass option come alive. Just because it is a patch doesn't mean it has to be lame.

 

[Will]

For the curious, easy fix to multiclassing problem:

Nonspellcasting classes add +1/2 of a spellcasting class, so long as you actually have a level of a spellcasting class.

Spellcasting classes of different 'type' add +3/4.

Note that a ranger and paladin's spellcasting level is 1/2 normal. Their contribution can't drop below +1/2 for this purpose.


I have a more complicated version, but this should work in many cases.

Yes, it allows a 19th level fighter to suddenly become a 10th level wizard, too, with the addition of a single wizard level.

But at 20th level, 10th level wizard spellcasting is minimal.