D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Maximized Spell hits w/Crit - Damage?

[Destan]

From one of my players:

Rules question: If I nail a dude with Ray of Enfeeblement with a critical hit, and that Ray is Empowered and Maximized (16pts), does my Critical Ray do a total of 32 pts of Strength damage? Or is the normal Ray 16pts and the Crit simply an additional 1d6+5 STR damage (normal RoE)?

Any help?

D

 

[hong]

You can't crit with a ray of enfeeblement because it does an enhancement penalty to Str, not Str damage.

 

[Destan]

Thanks, hong.

 

[Pax]

Your player, and you, are under another misconception/misinterpretation. Empower and Maximise don't work the way you think they do; you do not get 1.5x the maximum result.

Instead, you get the maximum result, plus half of an ACTUAL ROLL. This is covered in the 3.0 FAQ, and continues in 3.5 (check the wording of Maximise Spell again; it's stated clearly there).

So an Empowered Maximised Ray of Enfeeblement does not deal a flat -16 (enhancement) to strength. Instead, it deals 11, plus half of a 1d6+5 roll (round down).

So, for each result from the d6, we get a total effect of:

1 ... 14
2 ... 14
3 ... 15
4 ... 15
5 ... 16
6 ... 16

If a critical WERE possible, then it would be 22 plus half the result of a 2d6+10 roll; IOW, yes, Empower and/or Maximise DO "stack" with the effects of a critical hit, if and when damage is being dealt by the spell.

 

[Destan]

Your player, and you, are under another misconception/misinterpretation. Empower and Maximise don't work the way you think they do; you do not get 1.5x the maximum result.

I know. But I just wanted to do a quick copy & paste before heading to the mall, and just used the email he sent me.

Thanks for the info, though, because I probably would have forgotten regardless.

Take care,
D

 

[Bauglir]

Interesting question though. Just switch the spell to a scorching ray (Maximised) - what happens when that crits?

My inclination would be to double the maximum damage, being that the posibility of a critical hit is inherent in the damage of the base spell and would therefore also be subject to maximization.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Interesting question though. Just switch the spell to a scorching ray (Maximised) - what happens when that crits?

My inclination would be to double the maximum damage, being that the posibility of a critical hit is inherent in the damage of the base spell and would therefore also be subject to maximization.

I agree. The spell requires an attack roll, and if it crits it doubles the damage...which in the case of a Maximized spell is a flat value. So double the flat value.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I would tend to agree, but don't recall any rule specifying. The only similar example I can come up with is the Weapon Master special ability to max damage on a hit. It cannot be multiplied on a crit, so you just roll normally. Also, since virtually everything else is x2 + x2 = x3, and since Empower multiplies the base specifically even if maximized, I would guess an offical rulling would come down as max damage plus rolled damage. I don't see a problem with just 2 x max, thou.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Personally, I'd make him roll additional damage, instead of multiplying the max by 2.

After all, they don't say "roll damage for a weapon, and double it", they say "roll twice as many dice for damage."

So I'd say the extra damage from a crit is "additional" damage, which, as in the example of the empowered/maximized spell, should be rolled.