D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 PHB Errata are up...

[youspoonybard]

Although it is pretty hard for a Druid to cast Magic Jar...

(Yes, Hyp. Spell Storing, Theurge...what else am I missing this time?)

Although, to add something, I disagree with your basic premise that it has to be fixed totally. What if they changed the Balor Vorpal Sword to just not an ability, and so it shows up in the MM errata, not the PHB one?

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less about infinite power loops; but *I* for one cared a lot about how powerful Shapechange was compared to, oh, I dunno, all of the Druid Epic Wild Feats for example. While the spell may have some mechanical loopholes in it, I prefer this errata'ed version, even though it's not perfect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

(Yes, Hyp. Spell Storing, Theurge...what else am I missing this time?)

In 3.5? Use Magic Device...

But why limit yourself to Druid? Wizards cast Shapechange too...

-Hyp.

 

[youspoonybard]

But why limit yourself to Druid? Wizards cast Shapechange too...

-Hyp.

I think he needed the Druid to use the Beads of Karma for the effective +4 caster level increase...that's Divine only, right?

 

[Lord Rasputin]

The new Shapechange nerf doesn't do jack didly - as a Druid with Karma Beads can still perpetrate the Phoenix Duplication or Balor Mining infinite power loops.

'Tain't nuttin'. Epic Druids with the various wildshape feats kick hella hella over shapechange.

 

[jasamcarl]

#1: Phoenix Duplication: Activate shapechange and magic jar, take over an enemy, then become a Phoenix. You now have the Immolation ability, so use it. You "die", which sends you back into the Jar and destroys your "host". It also creates a completely real and independently active CR 24 Phoenix which is Neutral Good and probably far more powerful than your whole party combined.

#2: Balor Mining: Activate shapechange, and become a Balor. You now have the Vorpal Sword ability, which gives you a completely real +1 Vorpal Greatsword. Drop it, objects removed from your body when you are shapechanged retain their shape and qualities indeffinately (so if you inject someone with poison and turn into a rabit they stay poisoned). There is now a +1 Vorpal Sword on the ground - so transform into a Balor. You now have the Vorpal Sword ability, which gives you a +1 Vorpal Greatsword. Drop it.....

Both of these tricks are usable with or without the 1HD per caster level limit listed in the Errata - and thus the errata solves absolutely nothing and is a waste of my time. As long as it requires house rules to the spell to keep it from being an infinite power loop, there might as well not be any errata to the spell at all. Issuing errata implies that the spell is fixed - and it clearly is not.

-Frank

Eh, what makes you think the NG Phoenix will be helpful to the party. There is nothing in rules that mandates it. It is just another creature for the dm to use for plot hooks, etc.

And the exact text on shapechange as relates to equipment dropped clearly refers to equipment that the person polymorphed carried in their natural form, but was resized to fit the new. The balor's vorpal sword doesn't have an 'original' form. As such, i would count it as a Supernatural ability that is lost when the shapechanger shifts to a new form.

 

[youspoonybard]

'Tain't nuttin'. Epic Druids with the various wildshape feats kick hella hella over shapechange.

As it should be.

Any Epic Druid who takes 6+ EPIC FEATS should be able to pummel the person who depends on a pitiful 9th level spell : P

 

[reapersaurus]

umm.. what possible rules or realism justification is there for not allowing Overrun during a charge?
There's a bazillion more difficult and unrealistic things you can do during a charge (I'm sure), but they're saying you can't do something that's done every single game of NFL football?

Charging actually makes an Overrun MORE realistic, and believable - other than they're rules mess-ups on Charge restrictions in 3.5, is there any reason anyone can think of to restrict Overrun?

 

[youspoonybard]

They really didn't want you to charge through your allies, or other people, it seems.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

They really didn't want you to charge through your allies, or other people, it seems.

Yes, because we all need to exactingly coordinate our actions as a group to ensure we reach our maximum leathality.

I can see this rule causing quite a few table rifts about who took whose charge spot/block line/whatever. Bah. 3.0 realized it was a game and did some things because it was good for the players enjoyment. 3.5 really wants to beat Warhammer's sales of minatures.

 

[Legildur]

Charging actually makes an Overrun MORE realistic, and believable - other than they're rules mess-ups on Charge restrictions in 3.5, is there any reason anyone can think of to restrict Overrun?

I agree with repersaurus. I always read the rules that you could Overrun an opponent as a Charge and gain the +2 bonus to your Str check, but that you then couldn't have a wack at further opponent along the Charge line.

That is, you could use the Charge to increase your chances to overrun the front line to get to the rear opponents, but not Overrun and Charge another opponent in the same round.

The change sucks.

Aside from that, the clarification around movement, squeezing, etc is working well in our games, but I suspect that AOO for standing from prone could make my DM gag when my Monk picks up Improved Trip and Knockdown (S&F).