D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] What About Absolute Darkness
- Thread starter Jhyrryl
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Kae'Yoss
First Post
Hmm.. I DM an Underdark campaign, with drow being regular customers. I have used darkness one or two times to annoy the hells out of the party.
Actually, this makes it more useful for drow rogues (and other characters with darkness as spell or spell-like ability and levels as rogue, ranger, or anyone else that likes to hide): You gain the opportunity to hide even though there's no cover and the environment is well lit (or your enemies have darkvision), and you won't run the risk to run into things.
We still have invisibility and blindness for total conceilment (though none of these is "for and against all": You either give one creature concealment against all foes, or all creatures conceilment against one foe.
Actually, this makes it more useful for drow rogues (and other characters with darkness as spell or spell-like ability and levels as rogue, ranger, or anyone else that likes to hide): You gain the opportunity to hide even though there's no cover and the environment is well lit (or your enemies have darkvision), and you won't run the risk to run into things.
We still have invisibility and blindness for total conceilment (though none of these is "for and against all": You either give one creature concealment against all foes, or all creatures conceilment against one foe.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
The change makes darkness easier to use with miniatures--there's no need to guess where the opponents are--however it entirely vitiates the tactical uses of darkness. Using it to cover an escape? Fat chance! Now your enemies can see you as you skulk away. Using it to even up a stupid combat with dexterity/dodge based creatures (without uncanny dodge)? Now it's only a 20% miss chance and since they can see you the Nimblewrights get to keep their dex and dodge bonusses to AC. Using it to keep a beholder from targetting you with his eye rays? Now he can still target you.
I suppose it works better in combination with Faerie fire now. . . .
I suppose it works better in combination with Faerie fire now. . . .
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
For tactical retreat, why not use Invisibility?
The last time I used a nimblewright ... well, it's a good thing the cleric had the Trickery domain and a Wand of Invisiblity.
I'm surprised this change is getting such a positive response.
BTW doesn't this actually nerf rogues?
The last time I used a nimblewright ... well, it's a good thing the cleric had the Trickery domain and a Wand of Invisiblity.
I'm surprised this change is getting such a positive response.
BTW doesn't this actually nerf rogues?
The change to Darkness is ludicrous. I understand the difficulties in DM'ing the damn thing, but that doesn't mean a cool spell should not exist.
"Shadowy darkness" -- what kinda crap is that? At least I know what absolute darkness is. I don't think this helps anything but miniature play (ie, WOTC $$$). Why screw up my game for their profits?
"Ok, so it's shadowy. Can I trip him?"
"Kinda...but it's dark."
"What, like I see a dark blob or can I make out his legs?"
"Hmm...kinda...but it sure is 'shadowy'"
Oh, yeah...that's a lot better than "You can't see him."
Yes, I'm ranting because 3.5 effed up EVERY SPELL I was excited about. Reduce and Enlarge? Why can't you even leave them alone?" What's the big frickin' deal? Darkness, the Invisibilities, Fly, Evard's Tentacles, the polymorphs, alter self...and my DM is all about following the books.
Tell me, does it make any sense that I can enlarge a human being and not a door or a hammer? C'mon, this is junk.
OK, I'm done. Resume thread enjoyment.
wolfen
"Shadowy darkness" -- what kinda crap is that? At least I know what absolute darkness is. I don't think this helps anything but miniature play (ie, WOTC $$$). Why screw up my game for their profits?
"Ok, so it's shadowy. Can I trip him?"
"Kinda...but it's dark."
"What, like I see a dark blob or can I make out his legs?"
"Hmm...kinda...but it sure is 'shadowy'"
Oh, yeah...that's a lot better than "You can't see him."
Yes, I'm ranting because 3.5 effed up EVERY SPELL I was excited about. Reduce and Enlarge? Why can't you even leave them alone?" What's the big frickin' deal? Darkness, the Invisibilities, Fly, Evard's Tentacles, the polymorphs, alter self...and my DM is all about following the books.
Tell me, does it make any sense that I can enlarge a human being and not a door or a hammer? C'mon, this is junk.
OK, I'm done. Resume thread enjoyment.
wolfen
The change to Darkness is ludicrous. I understand the difficulties in DM'ing the damn thing, but that doesn't mean a cool spell should not exist.
"Shadowy darkness" -- what kinda crap is that? At least I know what absolute darkness is. I don't think this helps anything but miniature play (ie, WOTC $$$). Why screw up my game for their profits?
"Ok, so it's shadowy. Can I trip him?"
"Kinda...but it's dark."
"What, like I see a dark blob or can I make out his legs?"
"Hmm...kinda...but it sure is 'shadowy'"
Oh, yeah...that's a lot better than "You can't see him."
Yes, I'm ranting because 3.5 effed up EVERY SPELL I was excited about. Reduce and Enlarge? Why can't you even leave them alone?" What's the big frickin' deal? Darkness, the Invisibilities, Fly, Evard's Tentacles, the polymorphs, alter self...and my DM is all about following the books.
Tell me, does it make any sense that I can enlarge a human being and not a door or a hammer? C'mon, this is junk.
OK, I'm done. Resume thread enjoyment.
wolfen
"Shadowy darkness" -- what kinda crap is that? At least I know what absolute darkness is. I don't think this helps anything but miniature play (ie, WOTC $$$). Why screw up my game for their profits?
"Ok, so it's shadowy. Can I trip him?"
"Kinda...but it's dark."
"What, like I see a dark blob or can I make out his legs?"
"Hmm...kinda...but it sure is 'shadowy'"
Oh, yeah...that's a lot better than "You can't see him."
Yes, I'm ranting because 3.5 effed up EVERY SPELL I was excited about. Reduce and Enlarge? Why can't you even leave them alone?" What's the big frickin' deal? Darkness, the Invisibilities, Fly, Evard's Tentacles, the polymorphs, alter self...and my DM is all about following the books.
Tell me, does it make any sense that I can enlarge a human being and not a door or a hammer? C'mon, this is junk.
OK, I'm done. Resume thread enjoyment.
wolfen
Branduil
Hero
Personally, I think the new darkness sounds pretty cool. You still get concealment from it, which means you can use it to hide. Good for rogues and rangers.
Anyway, it seems to me that a real effort has been made to make PCs less reliant on spells for stealth and more on skills. That, in my opinion, is a good thing.
Anyway, it seems to me that a real effort has been made to make PCs less reliant on spells for stealth and more on skills. That, in my opinion, is a good thing.
Fedifensor
Explorer
It's rather sad when a 1st level spell is a better darkness spell than a 2nd or 3rd level one. Read obscuring mist...
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Kae'Yoss
First Post
wolfen said:
Seems quite clear: it's the same as the shadowy light a torch gives beyond the clear lit area. You get concealment from it. You can see contours, but no details.
Oh, please. I'm really tired of that "wizards are bloodsucking vampires that want all our money"-tirade (Monte's 3.5 review had enough of that, and the board's already full to brimming with it, too).
Changing the darkness spell to make profit with minis? This sounds like a conspiracy theory like the one that aliens have taken elvis and he rules the world now. It's just way out there.
I think it works like this:
"Ok, it's shadowy. Can I trip him?"
"Yes, but cause it's shadowy, you'll have a miss chance with your touch attack."
Your example above sounds more like these guys don't know the rules well (concealment)
Because the new version is much cleaner.
It seems that all the spells you are excited about are the spells that were to good to be true. Spells that had to be toned down. the plymorphs are the best example. I never understood the "roleplaying aspect" of polymorphing the fighter into a troll as soon as you leave the city behind. IMO, that was just powergaming.
You can enlarge a hammer - your equipment gets bigger with you.
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