[3.5] Wizards Chat Highlights

[MerricB]

Re: Re: Re: Paladin

Huh? Tolkien certainly doesn't have horses showing up at convenient moments, as far as I remember... What's in the movie is another matter, and the way Shadowfax is introduced there most certainly is bad writing.

Your memory deceives you.

"They have not returned," said Legolas. "It will be a weary walk!"

"I shall not walk. Time presses," said Gandalf. Then lifting up his head he gave a long whistle. So clear and piercing was the note that the others stood amazed to hear such a sound come from those old bearded lips. Three times he whistled, and then faint and far off it seemed to them that they heard the whinny of a horse borne up from the plains upon the eastern wind. They waited wondering. Before long there came the sound of hoofs, at first hardly more than a tremor of the ground perceptible only to Aragorn as he lay upon the grass, then growing steadily louder and clearer to a quick beat.

"There is more than one horse coming," said Aragorn.

"Certainly," said Gandalf. "We are too great a burden for one."

"There are three," said Legolas, gazing out over the plain. "See how they run! There is Hasufel, and there is my friend Arod beside him! But there is another that strides ahead: a very great horse. I have not seen his like before."

"Nor will you again," said Gandalf. "That is Shadowfax. He is the chief of the Mearas, lords of horses, and not even Theoden, King of Rohan has ever looked on a better. Does he not shine like silver, and run as smoothly as a swift stream? He has come for me: the horse of the White Rider. We are going to battle together."

Even as the old wizard spike, the great horse came striding up the slope towards them; his coat was glistening and his mane flowing in the wind of his speed. The two others followed, now far behind. As soon as Shadowfax saw Gandalf, he checked his pace and whinnied loudly; then trotting gently forward he stooped his proud head and nuzzled his great nostrils against the old man's neck.

Gandalf caressed him. "It is a long way from Rivendell, my friend," he said; "but you are wise and swift and come at need. Far let us ride now together, and part not in this world again!"
-- The Two Towers, J.R.R. Tolkien, Book 3, Chapter 9: The White Rider.

Cheers!

 

[mmu1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Paladin

Your memory deceives you.

No, it doesn't. In the book, Aragorn's, Legolas' and Gimli's horses go wild when they sense Shadowfax (their lord) and run off, then Gandalf calls to them and they come back from wherever they were running around. It's a dramatic entrance, but hardly the damn-near-magical arrival at the most convenient moment to save the day that people have been talking about. (Unlike Aragorn's horse magically showing up to carry him back to Edoras in the film, or the lame "I whistle, and here's what you can achieve with Loreal mane shampoo and conditio... I mean, Shadowfax, friend on many adventures, who'll get no exposition whatsoever.")

 

[Henry]

So a Paladin, in a dungeon falls into a 10' deep pit. He summons his horse to act as a step to get out, leaving said horse in the pit.

Does anyone really think that is the type of thing you want a paladin doing?

I agree 100% that this is a very very helpful addition to the Paladin's abilties. But it is a huge change from the last 20 years of what a Paladin's warhorse is.

In my eyes, a change is needed, if a Paladin's bonded mount is to be considered useful. In my expeience, the alternative in your example is leaving the mount tethered up somewhere outside the dungeon, or leaving him safely in town in the first place. If the focus of a campaign is on urban or dungeon adventures, the mount is little to no use, seeing little "screen time" while the paladin undertakes missions with his party.

In medieval lore and history, the knight had a paige, a squire, or a groom to take care of his horse while he went into town, or performed activities where a horse would not fit. In a standard adventuring party, most members won't have squires or hirelings who take care of the horse while the master is off being heroic in close quarters.

This weekend, in our game, we had a new character in the party (a player re-joined us after an absence). This Amnite horseman had a really nice charger with him, and he was skilled in its usage. However, after a brief trek in the wilderness, he went into the city, and sought lodgings for his horse. He didn't use his horse for 2/3rds of the evening. The next adventure is in a crypt, the next will likely be aboard a boat, and the one following will likely be in some more open territory, so he will again see use of his horse.

If he were a paladin, I would be sorry to see that his class ability for 5th level was wasted in a manner of speaking. With the ability to magically call a celestial mount, in my opinion it would streangthen the connection between the paladin and his god. Is it a break with tradition? Absolutely. But some traditions can outlive their time, and to me this is one of them.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Another really great thing about summoning horses is that The Master of Horses in The Sky can make more efficient use of the horses under his care. That is; TMoHiTS could send Trigger to do Silver's work once in awhile or vice versa. Meanwhile the other horse could rest and get groomed. Provided of course that Roy Rogers or Lone Ranger doesn't mind. Perhaps they wouldn't even notice. Unless of course the Lone Ranger really is a ranger and not a paladin for rangers have great empathy with horses and can recognise one in a flock. I guess TMoHiTS should take care to at least send a horse of the appropriate color. I mean The Phantom is pretty used to Hero being white so if TMoHiTS sends him Mr Moore's Concord instead he might get a bit disappointed.