D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Gestalt Druid/Wizard Optimization

[rmg22893]

Hey guys, I'm starting a level 1 Gestalt campaign tomorrow, and I've decided upon the following build (we are allowed core books, PHBII, and Complete books only, along with Magic Item Compendium, Spell Compendium, and A&E Guide):

Druid 20 // Wizard 3 / Geomancer 10 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7

Here is the build order:
01 Druid 1 | Wizard 1
02 Druid 2 | Wizard 2
03 Druid 3 | Wizard 3
04 Druid 4 | Geomancer 1 (Wiz)
05 Druid 5 | Geomancer 2 (Wiz)
06 Druid 6 | Geomancer 3 (Wiz)
07 Druid 7 | Geomancer 4 (Wiz)
08 Druid 8 | Geomancer 5 (Wiz)
09 Druid 9 | Geomancer 6 (Wiz)
10 Druid 10 | IotSV 1
11 Druid 11 | IotSV 2
12 Druid 12 | IotSV 3
13 Druid 13 | IotSV 4
14 Druid 14 | IotSV 5
15 Druid 15 | IotSV 6
16 Druid 16 | IotSV 7
17 Druid 17 | Geomancer 7 (Wiz)
18 Druid 18 | Geomancer 8 (Wiz)
19 Druid 19 | Geomancer 9 (Wiz)
20 Druid 20 | Geomancer 10 (Wiz)

Race: Human
Specialization: Conjuration (Banned Schools: Enchantment and Evocation)
ACFs: Abrupt Jaunt (PHBII)

Feats:
1st: Improved Initiative
Human: Spell Focus (abjuraton)
3rd: Skill Focus (spellcraft)
6th: Natural Spell
9th: Greater Spell Focus (abjuration)

These are the feats I know I have to have, so I'd like some guidance as to feats from 12th level onward, keeping in mind the book restrictions. I'd also like to know what magic items I should be aiming for in order to maximize my potential.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You can't use dual progression prestige classes in gestalt, which I believe Geomancer is.

Instead, do some combination of Master Specialist and IotSV. Master Specialist as an Abjuror works nicely with IotSV, but if you don't want to give up on Conjuration specialty and the ridiculously overpowered Abrupt Jaunt it comes with, the PrC can still be entered after only 3 wizard levels and still gives Skill Focus (spellcraft) for free and some other minor benefits.

Between being a conjuror and having spont. summon nature's ally spells, Augment Summoning seems like a great feat to go towards. You can drop Improved Initative to help clear feat room for it. Alternatively, I think UA has a variant to trade Scribe Scroll for it.

 

[rmg22893]

You can't use dual progression prestige classes in gestalt, which I believe Geomancer is.

Instead, do some combination of Master Specialist and IotSV. Master Specialist as an Abjuror works nicely with IotSV, but if you don't want to give up on Conjuration specialty and the ridiculously overpowered Abrupt Jaunt it comes with, the PrC can still be entered after only 3 wizard levels and still gives Skill Focus (spellcraft) for free and some other minor benefits.

Between being a conjuror and having spont. summon nature's ally spells, Augment Summoning seems like a great feat to go towards. You can drop Improved Initative to help clear feat room for it. Alternatively, I think UA has a variant to trade Scribe Scroll for it.

Geomancer isn't dual progression; you can either raise the spellcasting level of your divine spellcasting class OR your arcane spellcasting class, not both.

 

[parinho7]

conjurer(5)/incantatrix(10)/mage of the arcane order(5)//druid(10)/planar shepherd(10)

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

conjurer(5)/incantatrix(10)/mage of the arcane order(5)//druid(10)/planar shepherd(10)

Ahhh! You broke the Universe!

 

[emoplato]

Well, I guess the question is what do you want to be? While the IotSV is a good class with some really tantalizing side abilities but it is a class in which you have to work for. The Geomancer really doesn't support it, and considering the IotSV is taking up a lot of your feat space which could be used to enhance druid and/or Geomancer abilities you may want to take one of the two out.
A master specialist, a PrC from the Complete Mage, can do wonders whether you still want to be conjurer or change to an abjurer. It gives you two of your prerequisites for the IotSV plus more spells and caster level as well as passive or contingent boosts based upon what kind of specialist you are. Both the conjurational and abjurational abilities are really good whether you want to capitalize on the druid spontaneous summoning or keep the IotSV.

 

[Drowbane]

Dual Progression: This is not a rule. Its a guideline tacked on to the rule about not using two PrCs at any level. "... Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations - such as the Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, and Eldritch Knight - should be prohibited if you're using gestalt classes because they unduly complicate the game". That line is pretty silly if you think about it. If the DM is calling for Gestalt, then he wants and is comfortable with "unduly complicated" and frankly being a Wizard 3 / whatever 17 | cleric 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 / whatever else 7 is really not that big a deal. Having the options to cast any spell in the game still doesn't let you use more than one per round... with the exception of Celerity use, which is a whole other thread all together.

A more apt guideline would be "beware of niche protection and don't be an asshat". Find out what the other guys are wanting to play and respect their choices, do not try to be everything. I will repeat that last, do not try to be everything!

Only one PrC at a time: This is a pretty silly rule (but unlike "no Theurgists!" is actually a rule). Again the limiting factor here is and should only be the DM. PrC on both sides is not actually that big a deal. Certain PrCs should be blocked out completely, however. Such as Planar Shepard.

Stats and Gestalt: your starting stats may or may not dictate what classes you end up going with. If you have any shred of powergamer in you, then you're not likely to want to go Druid | Wizard unless your DM gives you point buy (or whatever) enough for you to have good Int and Wis... and probably Con.

Other random opinions: Doubling up on casting is really not the best idea, unless nobody else in your group wants to deal with being a caster (more power to *you*). With my gestalts I prefer to take one side as my primary and the other side as my secondary. My secondary side exists to augment the effectiveness of my primary and/or cover any holes. Example - primary Wizard | secondary Warblade. WB is a decent melee class, but in this sort of build it is not there to actually let my wizard tank. I take it for the d12 HD, another good save, the Int to stuff abilities, and then the maneuvers which may or may not actually get used depending on the situation. First and foremost this guy is a mage... with awesome HP. Or for players with DMs who think "core only" is valid, then swap out Warblade with fighter or barbarian.

Core Only): :headshake: Do people not understand that the 3 most broken classes come from the PHB? Meh, whatever... another topic for another day. Yes I realize that the OP's situation is more of a "Core++".

Geomancer is a rather lame PrC. The concept is cool, but the execution is made of fail. In gestalt however it may be redeemed as you can actually be a dual-caster with it. So if that is what you want to try, let us know how it goes.

If you were asking for build ideas; drop Wizard and Geomancer. Pick up a 1 level dip in Monk (wis to AC in direbear form is a beautiful thing) or a 2 level dip in Ninja (c-adv) (wis to AC + go invis as a swift for the entire round in direbear form is a beautiful thing), then go whole hog into Rogue (sneak attack in any form with a bunch of attacks... beauty). And yes, Sneak Attack is better than Skirmish or Sudden Strike.

Just my pocket full of change (clearly more than two cents ).

 

[rmg22893]

Dual Progression: This is not a rule. Its a guideline tacked on to the rule about not using two PrCs at any level. "... Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations - such as the Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, and Eldritch Knight - should be prohibited if you're using gestalt classes because they unduly complicate the game". That line is pretty silly if you think about it. If the DM is calling for Gestalt, then he wants and is comfortable with "unduly complicated" and frankly being a Wizard 3 / whatever 17 | cleric 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 / whatever else 7 is really not that big a deal. Having the options to cast any spell in the game still doesn't let you use more than one per round... with the exception of Celerity use, which is a whole other thread all together.

A more apt guideline would be "beware of niche protection and don't be an asshat". Find out what the other guys are wanting to play and respect their choices, do not try to be everything. I will repeat that last, do not try to be everything!

Only one PrC at a time: This is a pretty silly rule (but unlike "no Theurgists!" is actually a rule). Again the limiting factor here is and should only be the DM. PrC on both sides is not actually that big a deal. Certain PrCs should be blocked out completely, however. Such as Planar Shepard.

Stats and Gestalt: your starting stats may or may not dictate what classes you end up going with. If you have any shred of powergamer in you, then you're not likely to want to go Druid | Wizard unless your DM gives you point buy (or whatever) enough for you to have good Int and Wis... and probably Con.

Other random opinions: Doubling up on casting is really not the best idea, unless nobody else in your group wants to deal with being a caster (more power to *you*). With my gestalts I prefer to take one side as my primary and the other side as my secondary. My secondary side exists to augment the effectiveness of my primary and/or cover any holes. Example - primary Wizard | secondary Warblade. WB is a decent melee class, but in this sort of build it is not there to actually let my wizard tank. I take it for the d12 HD, another good save, the Int to stuff abilities, and then the maneuvers which may or may not actually get used depending on the situation. First and foremost this guy is a mage... with awesome HP. Or for players with DMs who think "core only" is valid, then swap out Warblade with fighter or barbarian.

Core Only): :headshake: Do people not understand that the 3 most broken classes come from the PHB? Meh, whatever... another topic for another day. Yes I realize that the OP's situation is more of a "Core++".

Geomancer is a rather lame PrC. The concept is cool, but the execution is made of fail. In gestalt however it may be redeemed as you can actually be a dual-caster with it. So if that is what you want to try, let us know how it goes.

If you were asking for build ideas; drop Wizard and Geomancer. Pick up a 1 level dip in Monk (wis to AC in direbear form is a beautiful thing) or a 2 level dip in Ninja (c-adv) (wis to AC + go invis as a swift for the entire round in direbear form is a beautiful thing), then go whole hog into Rogue (sneak attack in any form with a bunch of attacks... beauty). And yes, Sneak Attack is better than Skirmish or Sudden Strike.

Just my pocket full of change (clearly more than two cents ).

Unfortunately, Druid//Wizard was pretty much required. In our party, we have two Fighter//Rogues, a Rogue//Ranger, a Monk//Cleric (who is utterly useless), a Warlock//Barbarian, an Artificer//Swashbuckler (who somehow got the DM to allow him to play Artificer), and myself. So we're pretty much punching and shooting things to death other than myself, which hasn't worked so well insofar...needless to say, most of the other players in my group are terrible at playing. They have one or two modes of attack, max. Most of them just shoot arrows and hack at things, regardless of the situation.

Geomancer appealed to me because it has low entry requirements (allowing me to fit the entire progression of it plus IotSV into my build), because it eventually consolidates my save DCs for both classes into one attribute, negates arcane spell failure, and because it gives me some flavorful bonuses from drift.

I am normally a powergamer, but when the rest of the players are as full of suck as these guys (barring the artificer/swashbuckler, he's not that bad), powergaming would just make them hate me.

 

[emoplato]

Unfortunately, Druid//Wizard was pretty much required. In our party, we have two Fighter//Rogues, a Rogue//Ranger, a Monk//Cleric (who is utterly useless), a Warlock//Barbarian, an Artificer//Swashbuckler (who somehow got the DM to allow him to play Artificer), and myself. So we're pretty much punching and shooting things to death other than myself, which hasn't worked so well insofar...needless to say, most of the other players in my group are terrible at playing. They have one or two modes of attack, max. Most of them just shoot arrows and hack at things, regardless of the situation.

Geomancer appealed to me because it has low entry requirements (allowing me to fit the entire progression of it plus IotSV into my build), because it eventually consolidates my save DCs for both classes into one attribute, negates arcane spell failure, and because it gives me some flavorful bonuses from drift.

I am normally a powergamer, but when the rest of the players are as full of suck as these guys (barring the artificer/swashbuckler, he's not that bad), powergaming would just make them hate me.

Well, I think you should take a look at a master specialist. It really opens up a lot of options and doesn't take away anything. If you want to keep Geomancer go conjuration as it gives your summons more hit points, harder to dispel, and even free automatic quicken. It also opens feats up either way so you aren't filling feats for prerequisites. Augment Summoning and Imbued summoning add more hit die and general attack capability as well as automatic buff spells to anything summoned. Otherwise abjuration fits very well with the IotSV.