3 book models vs. 1 book models.

I think that a few one book is all you need to get started RPGs (Traveller D20 and Spycraft 2.0, for example) are pretty nice.

That said...

Imaro said:
Some advantages I see to the single corebook...
1.) Cheaper to get into.
2.) If you buy the book you now have the rules to both play and run the game(might facilitate more people at least considering trying to run a game.)
3.)Portability greatly increases.
4.)Better understanding of both player and DM perspectives and issues concerning gameplay on both sides of the screen.

2 and 4 directly contradict 1. Players don't need the material in the MM and DMG, so they save that much money, and that's a majority of the group.
 

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Vocenoctum said:
The purpose of the GH material was never to support the setting, but to baseline the rules. GH material is added in nearly every non-Eberron or FR book they make, but the WORLD is not advanced. Baseline deities are needed, giving them identities other than "God of War" or "God of Oceans" is a good idea IMO. Named spells certainly don't hurt anything.

Other than that, what GH material is there to lose?

Without an actual setting, exactly what purpose does it serve...the LGG went out of print a long time ago. I actually think the whole "god of this" +(you name him) is a better solution. YMMV of course.
 

Psion said:
I think that a few one book is all you need to get started RPGs (Traveller D20 and Spycraft 2.0, for example) are pretty nice.

That said...



2 and 4 directly contradict 1. Players don't need the material in the MM and DMG, so they save that much money, and that's a majority of the group.

I can see that. But do you think this also is a detterent to more people running games? When I started playing C&C, and everyone in my group bought a PHB(which includes all rules to run the game, though not monsters) my players, who had never offered to run games with D&D, all steped up and ran a game in our last campaign. The same thing happened with two of my players when we played Exalted as well.
 

Imaro said:
I can see that. But do you think this also is a detterent to more people running games?

I'm not certain I have a confident notion of the shape of the buying habits of potential GMs versus "well invested players" (I had one player who only GMed World of Darkness, but bought the 3-book slip case set for D&D 3.5), but maybe to some extent.
 

jgbrowning said:
Unless your one book is 1000 pages, you're going to lose information from the existing 3.5 rules-set. What 50% of material do you want to cut? :)

joe b.
I still love the CoC d20 book, therefore I say: Cut some classes and put them back into their original concept: Sorcerer -> Wizard (just make a variable casting stat), Barbarian -> Fighter (just make raging a talent tree a lá d20 Modern), unify the Bard with the Rogue (i.e. Rogue with spellcasting/music talent tree instead of sneak-attacking).

Don't handle spellcasting so (i.e. don't have sperate class tables, just have a single "Base Magicbonus", which gives your spells per day on a master table)... differently, make a slimmer spell-list, where spells have different functions, like 2E 'reversible' spells, just further that concept, so a "Fireball" on 3rd level makes a fireball, cast on 6th level it has a higher cap, and on 8th it's delayed.

Ditch the magic item reliability, and hence ditch a good chunk of the "Magic Items"-chapter. They're not essential, so don't put them into the Core Book, just some examples and appetizer for a sperate book.

And cut down monsters. Make a toolset for very varying monsters, like Demons, Slaads, and Summon Creatures. Put in dragons, animals, then a sampler of every CR about 1 or 2, with the new statblock, and less listing.
 

I still think the basic/expert/etc system makes the most sense. Why only require the DM to buy 3 books. Spread all three books across three required books.

Make the first book cover level 1-4, including spells 0-2, monster crs up to 5, and a few minor magic items including potion and scroll creation rules. Most combat rules and the environmental rules would be here.

Book 2 covers character levels 5-10, spell levels 3-6, monster crs up to 12, and full magic item creation rules and cover magic items up to 30,000 xp. Some info on planar travel might exist here.

And the 3rd book is all the rest. Folks who have their sweet-spot set around 8-10th level can skip buying the 3rd book (if they can resist doing so).

And if you want you can continue the sequence with an epic handbook for character level 21 and up. Or a limited range of 21-35 and save the 5th book for deities as it worked in rules encyclopedia.
 

jgbrowning said:
What 50% of material do you want to cut? :)

Humanoid monster races. All of them. Particularly Elf sub-races.

All but two Giant races.

Specific stats for animals and vermin.

Most magic items, particularly stat boosters.

Many spells.

Cheers, -- N
 

I'm all for the 2-book model, with one for the players and the other for the GM. A bunch of classic monsters into the DM's Guide and we’re done; you may latter have monster manuals as non-mandatory accessories. The format of 2E Legend of the Five Rings sounds right to me.

Cheers,
 

Imaro said:
Without an actual setting, exactly what purpose does it serve...the LGG went out of print a long time ago. I actually think the whole "god of this" +(you name him) is a better solution. YMMV of course.

Well, like I said, it wasn't so much to provide a full setting, so much as to give a baseline, give examples. I think it was as much to give answer to the complaints that D&D's "3 books" didn't even have the setting that most "1 book" games do. :)

But, either way, I don't think cutting it would save space, is my point. If you replace Boccob with God Of Magic, and Heironius with God of Paladins, you don't save any space, it's the same info.
 


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