D&D 3E/3.5 3E and the Feel of D&D

For 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons, the big picture was to return the game to its roots, reversing the direction that 2nd Edition had taken in making the game more generic. The plan was to strongly support the idea that the characters were D&D characters in a D&D world. We emphasized adventuring and in particular dungeoneering, both with the rules and with the adventure path modules. We...

For 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons, the big picture was to return the game to its roots, reversing the direction that 2nd Edition had taken in making the game more generic. The plan was to strongly support the idea that the characters were D&D characters in a D&D world. We emphasized adventuring and in particular dungeoneering, both with the rules and with the adventure path modules. We intentionally brought players back to a shared experience after 2E had sent them off in different directions.

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To keep the focus on adventuring, we eliminated several elements from 2E that, we thought, tended to take players off course. In particular, we removed evil PCs, individual XP awards, strongholds, and the class name “thief.”

Thieves were renamed “rogues” to take the emphasis off of them going off on their own to steal random items from NPCs. Doing so usually amounted to stealing spotlight time and the DM’s attention away from the other players. If thieves stole from other PCs in order to be “in character,” that was even worse.

Starting in original D&D, top-level fighters and clerics could build strongholds, and we dropped that. If you have had fun playing your character as an adventurer for level after level, why would you suddenly want to take on non-adventuring duties at 9th level? These strongholds were styled as benefits, so if you didn’t start one, you were losing a bonus that you’d apparently earned. Running a stronghold was also an individual activity, not something a party did. Worse, if players wanted their characters to run strongholds for fun, why force them to adventure until they reached 9th level first? In my personal 3E campaign, I gave the party the option to rule from a fort on the frontier when the characters were 6th level, and they took it. It was a project that they undertook as a party, like the rest of their adventuring careers.

We got rid of individual XP awards, which rewarded different classes for doing different things. Fighters got bonus experience for killing monsters, for example, and thieves got experience for stealing things. It looked good on paper, but it rewarded characters for pursuing different goals. We were trying to get players to pursue the same goals, especially those that involved kicking open doors and fighting what was on the other side.

Evil characters in D&D can be traced back to Chainmail, a miniatures game in which playing an evil army was routine. Having good and evil characters together in a party led to problems and sometimes hard feelings. In a lunchtime 2E campaign at Wizards, an evil character sold fake magic items to other characters; the players who got scammed were not amused. During a playtest of 3E, one of the designers secretly created an evil character who, at the end of the session, turned on the rest of us. It was a test of sorts, and the result of the test was that evil characters didn’t make the experience better. 3E established the expectation that PCs would be neutral or good, one of the rare instances of us narrowing the players’ options instead of expanding them.

Personally, one part of the process I enjoyed was describing the world of D&D in its own terms, rather than referring to real-world history and mythology. When writing roleplaying games, I enjoy helping the player get immersed in the setting, and I always found these references to the real world to be distractions. In the Player’s Handbook, the text and art focused the readers’ imaginations on the D&D experiences, starting with an in-world paragraph to introduce each chapter.

In 2nd Ed, the rules referred to history and to historical legends to describe the game, such as referring to Merlin to explain what a wizard was or to Hiawatha as an archetype for a fighter. But by the time we were working on 3rd Ed, D&D had had such a big impact on fantasy that we basically used D&D as its own source. For example, 2E took monks out of the Player’s Handbook, in part because martial artist monks have no real place in medieval fantasy. We put them back in because monks sure have a place in D&D fantasy. The same goes for gnomes. The 3E gnome is there because the gnome was well-established in D&D lore, not in order to represent real-world mythology.

We also emphasized adventuring by creating a standard or “iconic” adventurer for each class. In the rule examples, in the illustrations, and in the in-world prose, we referred to these adventurers, especially Tordek (dwarf fighter), Mialee (elf wizard), Jozan (human cleric), and Lidda (halfling rogue). While AD&D used proper names to identify supremely powerful wizards, such as Bigby of the spell Bigby’s crushing hand, we used proper names to keep the attention on adventurers, even down to a typical 1st-level fighter.

For the art in 3E, we took pains to have it seem to illustrate not fantasy characters in general but D&D adventurers in particular. For one thing, lots of them wore backpacks. For the iconic characters, we wrote up the sort of gear that a 1st-level character might start with, and the illustrations showed them with that gear. The illustrations in the 2E Player’s Handbook feature lots of human fighters, human wizards, and castles. Those images reflect standard fantasy tropes, while the art in 3E reflects what you see in your mind’s eye when you play D&D.

Descriptions of weapons in 2E referred to historical precedents, such as whether a weapon was use in the European Renaissance or in Egypt. With almost 20 different polearms, the weapon list reflected soldiers on a medieval battlefield more than a heterogenous party of adventurers delving into a dungeon. We dropped the historical references, such as the Lucerne hammer, and gave dwarves the dwarven warax. And if the dwarven warax isn’t cool enough, how would you like a double sword or maybe a spiked chain?

The gods in 2E were generic, such as the god of strength. We pulled in the Greyhawk deities so we could use proper names and specific holy symbols that were part of the D&D heritage. We knew that plenty of Dungeon Masters would create their own worlds and deities, as I did for my home campaign, but the Greyhawk deities made the game feel more connected to its own roots. They also helped us give players a unified starting point, which was part of Ryan Dancey’s plan to bring the D&D audience back to a shared experience.

Fans were enthusiastic about the way 3E validated adventuring, the core experience that D&D does best and that appeals most broadly. We were fortunate that by 2000 D&D had such a strong legacy that it could stand on its own without reference to Earth history or mythology. One reason that fans were willing to accept sweeping changes to the rules was that 3E felt more like D&D than 2nd Edition had. Sometimes I wonder what 4E could have accomplished if it had likewise tried to reinforce the D&D experience rather than trying to redesign it.
 

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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I've only been in one game where I and the rest of the group were evil. We knew going in we wouldn't be the good guys and we all agreed to it. I think sometimes it can be an interesting change of pace, but I'm glad that campaign was the exception. I think it worked for us because while were the bad guys, we weren't bad to each other. We were unified in out decisions and didn't have infighting.
This. The whole, "I'm evil so I have to betray all of my friends all the time, hur hur!" is as wrong as Lawful Stupid is for Paladins. Evil people can like, love and have friends that they are loyal to. Now that baron that hired us...
 

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Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I really don't see this a loss of shared experience. Rather, it's a large variety of different shared experiences for people of different stripes. One group shares their experiences in Sigil, another on Athas and a third in Al Qadim.
My shared experience was with the people I played (and, for some, still play) with. However, that's not something that keeps marketers happy.

The interests of players and of a game company are not the same.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
My shared experience was with the people I played (and, for some, still play) with. However, that's not something that keeps marketers happy.

The interests of players and of a game company are not the same.
That's not a shared experience, though. That's just making sure that players don't have so many options that the company is only selling a small number of units of like 20 different things. I think maybe they used the wrong term. ;)
 



Arnwolf666

Adventurer
That's not a shared experience, though. That's just making sure that players don't have so many options that the company is only selling a small number of units of like 20 different things. I think maybe they used the wrong term. ;)
yes. We all need the same shared experience in a game originally designed to create a plethora of worlds and settings and adventures. More forgotten realms please. Stay true to the setting and don’t change anything. Well maybe import greyhawk adventures and put them in the forgotten realms. We can’t have those adventures done there after all.
 


I'd like to see 6E (and its novel/comic tie-ins) bring together the Iconics from all editions, times, and worlds...a D&D "Crisis on Infinite Oerths." Everyone from Tordek to Tasslehoff.

Including:
  • 3E's iconics: (Tordek, Lidda, etc)
  • BECMI: Hawk (Ftr), Aleena (Clr), Clarion (Clr), Felonius (MU), Fleetwood (Ftr), Greegan (T), Rolf (D), Belrain (E),& Touchberry (Hf)
  • Moldvay Basic: Morgan Ironwolf (Ftr), Silverleaf (E), Sister Rebecca (Clr), Fredrik (D), Black Dougal (T), Borg (Ftr), Tars (Ftr), Gantry (Clr)
  • LJN Action Figures: Warduke (Ftr), Strongheart (Pal), Mercion (Clr), Elkhorn (D), etc
  • D&D Cartoon Show: Presto (MU), Diana (Acrobat), Sheila (T), Hank (Rgr), Bobby (Bbn), Eric (Cav)
  • The Greyhawk iconics: Bigby, Melf, Otiluke, Tenser, etc
  • Heroes of the Lance
  • Companions of the Hall
  • etc.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I'd like to see 6E (and its novel/comic tie-ins) bring together the Iconics from all editions, times, and worlds...a D&D "Crisis on Infinite Oerths." Everyone from Tordek to Tasslehoff.

Including:
  • 3E's iconics: (Tordek, Lidda, etc)
  • BECMI: Hawk (Ftr), Aleena (Clr), Clarion (Clr), Felonius (MU), Fleetwood (Ftr), Greegan (T), Rolf (D), Belrain (E),& Touchberry (Hf)
  • Moldvay Basic: Morgan Ironwolf (Ftr), Silverleaf (E), Sister Rebecca (Clr), Fredrik (D), Black Dougal (T), Borg (Ftr), Tars (Ftr), Gantry (Clr)
  • LJN Action Figures: Warduke (Ftr), Strongheart (Pal), Mercion (Clr), Elkhorn (D), etc
  • D&D Cartoon Show: Presto (MU), Diana (Acrobat), Sheila (T), Hank (Rgr), Bobby (Bbn), Eric (Cav)
  • The Greyhawk iconics: Bigby, Melf, Otiluke, Tenser, etc
  • Heroes of the Lance
  • Companions of the Hall
  • etc.
This sounds like the best thing that has ever existed and I want it now!

#CRISISONINFINITEOERTHS
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I'd like to see 6E (and its novel/comic tie-ins) bring together the Iconics from all editions, times, and worlds...a D&D "Crisis on Infinite Oerths." Everyone from Tordek to Tasslehoff.

Including:
  • 3E's iconics: (Tordek, Lidda, etc)
  • BECMI: Hawk (Ftr), Aleena (Clr), Clarion (Clr), Felonius (MU), Fleetwood (Ftr), Greegan (T), Rolf (D), Belrain (E),& Touchberry (Hf)
  • Moldvay Basic: Morgan Ironwolf (Ftr), Silverleaf (E), Sister Rebecca (Clr), Fredrik (D), Black Dougal (T), Borg (Ftr), Tars (Ftr), Gantry (Clr)
  • LJN Action Figures: Warduke (Ftr), Strongheart (Pal), Mercion (Clr), Elkhorn (D), etc
  • D&D Cartoon Show: Presto (MU), Diana (Acrobat), Sheila (T), Hank (Rgr), Bobby (Bbn), Eric (Cav)
  • The Greyhawk iconics: Bigby, Melf, Otiluke, Tenser, etc
  • Heroes of the Lance
  • Companions of the Hall
  • etc.

5E is already doing a lot of this: these characters get mentioned in the books. More could be done, but give it time.
 

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