3e, DMs, and Inferred Player Power

[Belen]

You missed the obvious answer.

In Eberron, the house rules are presented up front and are agreed upon. There are positive-energy undead-like things, there's new templates, gods work like X, etc.

The Eberron campaign setting book does not change midgame, and it most certainly doesn't say, "Use your common sense when your players want to do something you don't like."

Yes, because I have been advocating rules changes willy nilly in this thread.

I believe that I have already stated that I present rules changes or new rules upfront to my players. So how are homebrew DMs that do it this way not playing D&D?

 

[Sundragon2012]

You missed the obvious answer.

In Eberron, the house rules are presented up front and are agreed upon. There are positive-energy undead-like things, there's new templates, gods work like X, etc.

The Eberron campaign setting book does not change midgame, and it most certainly doesn't say, "Use your common sense when your players want to do something you don't like."

The fact is that in published settings everything has to be laid out clearly from the beginning. Many DMs do not have the time or energy to imagine every potential problem with every particular rule or core assumptions before they encounter it. It simply isn't realistic to expect this. The only house rule or core assumptions alterations one can present to one's players are the ones the DM is currently aware of. Any other changes have to be taken as they come based on the situation or circumstances presented in the campaign.

For example, if a group of PCs go to a previously unknown region, one the DM just mapped a week before, then there may be unforseen rules changes on behalf of the players until gameday because the DM just ironed them out.




Chris

 

[S'mon]

Even with half gp, most 6th level characters could easily afford 1000 gp for a light source that never runs out. It is a one time payment and useful for the rest of your life. Seems like a good deal to me.

1000gp?! I don't think so. My PCs are 5th level and after discovering a treasure cache they can finally just about afford to buy a +1 shield for 1300 gp or full plate armour - for an everburning torch they might pay 200 gp I guess, but no way 1000, not unless I removed all their Light spells and had the orcs always target their lanterns.

 

[The Shaman]

If Wizards can create their own campaign world with rules that do not exist within the 3 core books because those rules are setting specific, then why is Joe Blow, the DM, barred from it? Why is it that someone not hired by Wizards is not qualified to write rules for the game?...D&D is a long tradition of DMs changing, modifying, or creating rules in order to fit specific campaign worlds or types of play.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Berandor]

You missed the obvious answer.

In Eberron, the house rules are presented up front and are agreed upon. There are positive-energy undead-like things, there's new templates, gods work like X, etc.

The Eberron campaign setting book does not change midgame, and it most certainly doesn't say, "Use your common sense when your players want to do something you don't like."

So the Eberron setting book tells us the basic house rules, and further supplements (like "Explorer's Handbook" or "Races of Eberron") give more house rules.

How is that different from me giving a house rule document up front and later, when necessity presents itself, bringing new rules into the game between sessions?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yes, because I have been advocating rules changes willy nilly in this thread.

Maybe you haven't, but those on your side of the argument have.

"Yes, I know the Intimidate skill says 'X', but it's more realistic for it to work like 'Y' in this instance."

"Yes, I know the rules on how cover and targets in melee affect ranged attacks say 'X', but it's more realistic doe it to work like 'Y' in this instance."

"Yes, I know the rules on ..."

Etc.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How is that different from me giving a house rule document up front and later, when necessity presents itself, bringing new rules into the game between sessions?

Between sessions.

Not "in the middle of the session, as the player is attempting an action."

 

[Raven Crowking]

Even with half gp, most 6th level characters could easily afford 1000 gp for a light source that never runs out. It is a one time payment and useful for the rest of your life. Seems like a good deal to me.

Well, most 6th level characters in my campaign cannot easily afford 1,000 gp. Moreover, with 1/2 XP, there are fewer 6th level characters around. Finally, if I follow your reasoning, they should just make their own far cheaper.

Plus, if magic works the way it does in the RAW, it means there is no chance for failure, perfectly safe and very useful.

Really? So the RAW do not suggest that ethereal filchers are attracted to magic? The RAW state that fire elementals cannot pass to the material plane through permanent magical fires? The RAW suggest that there is no chance of an item being cursed due to flawed workmanship?

Or are you suggesting that you are changing the RAW when you extrapolate from them? Is there anything in the RAW that suggests such things do not happen?

It would be fairly easy to create some illusions, convince someone to touch them and when they realize that it is perfectly safe understand that the torches are made the same way.

It would also be fairly easy to create some illusions, convince someone to touch them (charm person, perhaps), and when they realize that it is perfectly safe offload those scarabs of death on them. I'm thinking word would spread fairly quickly when the first fire elemental popped out of some poor peasant's everburning torch and burned the village down.

All the money? Every empire since the beginning of time that ever produced gold, silver, and copper coins. In Greyhawk...this is a lot.

And the gold, no doubt, comes from the Elemental Plane of Gold.

Seriously, if there is a finite amount of Substance X available, logic dictates that there is a maximum amount of said substance to go around. Not so, according to the RAW. According to the RAW, the amount of wealth available in the game world is directly proportionate to the level of characters in the game world. Even the population/gp available chart in the DMG is tied to the idea that characters of certain levels will be available in any given burg based on its size.

Talk about voodoo economics! That's just plain silly!

People only get XP for defeating enemies, 95% of the people on the planet never defeat any enemies at all.

What about all those high-level commoners in the RAW?

The PCs are the rare exception to the rule.

Likewise, PCs are the rare exception to the rule re: item creation feats. If you are going to claim that the PCs are "rare exceptions" when it otherwise shows up the logical problems of the RAW, then surely you concede that the same applies to any other logical consistencies that might crop up due to the "obvious" abilities of NPCs.

If PCs can reach 10th level in one game year of play, and 20th level within 5 game years, then surely NPCs can do at least a tenth as good as this? That still leaves a lot of really high-level characters, especially among the longer-lived races. And when, as in Greyhawk, we are talking aeons of game history, why haven't they wiped out the lower-CR threats by now? Wouldn't common, reliable magic make larger predators a thing of the past? This would be similar to the disappearance of wolves or lions as a major problem in Europe.

My point is not that you cannot deal with these problems. My point is that the RAW bring up larger, more glaring, and sillier inconsistencies than a low-magic world does. Pointing out that you can "hand-wave" these problems away does not make them any less real.


RC

 

[jmucchiello]

Sometimes I do run into people who have a Monopoly House Rule, but very rarely.

You've never played with the Free Parking variant of Monopoly? IME, most people don't play Monopoly by the RAW. Go look at the rules to Monopoly and tell me that you actually play using all the rules exactly as written. Monopoly has lots of common house rules that people use in varying degrees.

 

[The Shaman]

People only get XP for defeating enemies, 95% of the people on the planet never defeat any enemies at all.

What eff'd up version of the rules are you taking that from? Characters (player and non-) gain experience from overcoming challenges - there is absolutely nothing that says that needs to come from solely from defeating enemies.