3e too complicated ?

[rounser]

I was trying to say that I don't think you need rules to streamline NPC generation, because it's so easy to do it yourself. Why add more rules or have one set of rules for PCs and one for NPCs?

Because by cutting down NPC stats, you've effectively introduced a new set of rules of your own for NPCs already (abbreviated or omitted NPC stats). May as well have the game help (further - there are those NPC tables) with that, instead of pretend it's a non-issue.

 

[Azlan]

in game, I think 3e is a LOT easier to adjudicate than previous editions.

Once you have a firm grasp on most (if not all) of the rules, then, yes, 3E is a lot easier to abjudicate. This is especially true for DMs. Every action and every reaction in 3E has precise rules for it, whereas in the previous editions, a DM's decisions were more arbitrary and freewheeling.

Anyway, 3E is complicated. But is it too complicated? For some gamers, yes; for others, no.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Quick? What are the saving throws of a 13th-level thief?
If I use a Wand of Finger of Death on him, what save type does he roll?

I don't think 2e was simple. The only simple thing was creating monsters, and they all looked the same - THAC0 based exclusively on HD, few bonus hp, and you had no clue about it's "CR" since the amount of magic items and dice rolling for stats varied so widely from one campaign to another.

And then there's those "10th" level adventures, even though you've got a 13th-level thief, 12th-level priest, and 8th-level wizard

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I use a Wand of Finger of Death on him, what save type does he roll?

In 1E, it was Rod, Staff or Wand... but I needed to look up the table to check the footnotes to be sure

(Fortunately, my 1E DMG opens to the 70s without any conscious effort )

-Hyp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Are you sure it wasn't save vs death?

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are footnotes to the table.

Petrification or Polymorph has a footnote "Excludes polymorph wand attacks."

Breath Weapon has a footnote "Excluding those which cause petrification or polymorph."

Spells has a footnote "Excluding those for which another saving throw type is specified, such as death, petrification, polymorph, etc."

Rod, Staff or Wand has no footnote.

-Hyp.

 

[John Crichton]

Things like BAB and HD should be purchased as skills and not doled out automatically each level for every character.

That is one aspect of 3E that is seriously messed up.

How would that make things more simple?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I had no trouble memorizing the saving throw tables in 3e (they're only two of them ) but I hated having to memorize all those exceptions in 2e. I think the table went PPD... etc where PPD was paralyzation, poison, and death, and I think by default you went left to right, but I wasn't sure.

You shouldn't have to look up the table all the time. Even though I wrote my PPD etc on my character sheet, then I would have to write down when my Dex bonus applies, and when my Wisdom bonus applied, and whether you used PPD or SW against a Rod of Disintegrate, or what not.

It isn't like 3e hasn't completely gotten rid of that kind of confusion ... just take a look at the 3e undead turning system.

 

[KB9JMQ]

It isn't like 3e hasn't completely gotten rid of that kind of confusion ... just take a look at the 3e undead turning system.

Amen Brother.

Could somebody please come up with a single opposed roll system for turning undead? That is the single most confusing and hard to explain part of the whole game IMHO.

In both games I play or DM in everyone you plays a cleric ask that we don't have undead so we can just avoid going there

 

[Voneth]

For most NPCs, though, I don't think you need to fully stat them. Give them the standard ability spread. Figure their BAB and saves. Slap a couple of feats and skills on and you're good to go. For the majority of NPCs, this is good enough. Who cares if it isn't wholly accurate? You might want to fully stat your BBEG as you would a PC, though.

Starman

Actualy, I thought that is what all those NPCs in the DMG were for.