3e too complicated ?

[diaglo]

Original D&D (1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

 

[Melan]

diaglo: does it include Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry and GDGH, or are those travesties in your eye?

[Of course, real men play Chainmail, but that's beside the point.]

 

[Starman]

Originally posted by rounser
I think you need to reread my post.

Sorry. I was typing that right before I went to bed and I wasn't all there, IYKWIM.

I was trying to say that I don't think you need rules to streamline NPC generation, because it's so easy to do it yourself. Why add more rules or have one set of rules for PCs and one for NPCs?

Starman

 

[seasong]

9th level commoner, maxxed Craft (blacksmith) skill, with Skill focus

Lazybones, I feel that I did not communicate to you my intent. Yes, you've solved the math problem . However, my statement was not that the math problem was unsolvable, but that it exists.

I notice that your blacksmith has a Reflex save of +5, unless he's a particularly clumsy person who slams hammers on steel regularly... It's all bundled together. If you go with minimum hit points, you have to explain why... and why, with those hit points, he survived levels 1-4.

And it's still not unsolveable. I'm not saying it is, so please don't respond with another solution .

I'm saying that, while I can certainly build a character that matches my needs, I can't just give him a stat out of the blue, simply because that stat makes sense. Or rather, I can (and do), but I'm not following the rules when I do so.

To put it another way, your solution took me longer to read than assigning a skill 16 in GURPS would take me to do.

That doesn't mean GURPS is better, or that D&D is bad. It's just a statement of fact, and of one issue that D&D has that GURPS doesn't. Lord knows GURPS has plenty of issues of its own .

 

[Lazybones]

Actually, I think I knew what you were getting at, seasong, I was just saying that I prefer having the structure while you prefer being able to make it up as you go. In 1e/2e 0 level NPCs and monsters didn't really "work" according to the same rules as PCs, which was fine in its own way, but I like how the 3e system is so much more structurally consistent. In earlier editions you couldn't really "break" the rules for building monsters and NPCs because there weren't any rules.

Luckily, D&D can accomodate both styles thanks to Rule 0. If you want a L1 commoner to have +15 Craft (or if you just want to assign their skills as they come up in the game, and not stat things out at all), there's no reason why you couldn't do it. If your players don't mind that style (and from reading your SH I'd say you don't abuse your power as DM), I say enjoy whatever works for you.

But I still say that 1e/2e was more complicated (or at least, more inconsistent, which often made things complicated) in this regard.

 

[Spatula]

Hypersmurf, All proficiencies in 2E are optional. I can't believe no one called you on this yet.

Probably because Hypersmurf was giving a 1E example, as you would know if you read his post all the way through. The unarmed combat example should have given that away.

Originally posted by Hypersmurf
Hooray for the simplicity of 1E!

 

[Angcuru]

I remember one time I was playing 2nd edition, and a combat between our party and 8 ogres took 2 HOURS to play out, due ot all of the modifiers.

The same combat in 3rd edition took 30 minutes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Probably because Hypersmurf was giving a 1E example, as you would know if you read his post all the way through. The unarmed combat example should have given that away.

Thank you

-Hyp.

 

[tieranwyl]

Probably because Hypersmurf was giving a 1E example, as you would know if you read his post all the way through. The unarmed combat example should have given that away.

Sorry Hypersmurf.

 

[ced1106]

I liked the SAGA system. Only the players have to deal with the rules. GM-challenges, like NPCs, were just difficulty numbers.

To some extent, the Skill rolls do this. A GM can just set a target number to, say, convince an NPC, and the PC rolls against his skill.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^