3x Empowered Cats Grace

[Latency]

How does a character go about getting a 3X empowered Cats Grace ?

I have seen people talking about this and I am curious how it is done.

 

[Olive]

by casting it as an eighth level spell.

but this should be in the rules forum

 

[Latency]

Thank you for the response, I didn' t realize you could empower a spell that has been empowered already.

Thanks

 

[Squire James]

The rules are grey on the area regarding whether a feat can be used multiple times on the same spell. Some figure you can because the rules don't say you can't. Some figure you can't because the rule say you can.

This leaves the fallback everyone should be using: is it reasonable to allow someone to increase Dex by (1d4+1)x2.5 for basically the whole day as an 8th level spell reasonable? Now, what if this was stored on, say, a Staff of Buff Cubed (bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance; all empower x3; caster level 15; base cost 180K gp; cost to create 90K gp and 3600 XP) with 50 charges?

My ruling would be that you have to take the Empower Spell feat multiple times to apply it multiple times. If the caster thinks it's important that his spells get triple-Empowered, it is important enough to spend 3 feat slots on it.

In case you're interested, the stats for staves with the 3 physical buff spells at various levels of empowerment (using standard DMG guidelines):

Staff of Lesser Buff (unempowered, cl 3): 7500 gp (3750 gp and 150 XP)
Staff of Buff (empowered, cl 7): 42K gp (21K gp and 840 XP)
Staff of Buff Squared (empowered x2, cl 11): 99K gp (49.5K gp and 1980 XP)
Staff of Buff Cubed (empowered x3, cl 15): 180K gp (90K gp and 3600 XP)

 

[Olive]

i always assumed that you could just because i heard people on here talking about2x empowerd or whatever. but it doesn't specifially say. has their been a sage ruling on this?

 

[elbandit]

I seem to recall...

An example either in Dragon or T&B where a spell was doubled empowered.

Personally, in my games I do not allow a spell to be affected by a meta-magic feat more than once.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: I seem to recall...

An example either in Dragon or T&B where a spell was doubled empowered.

Personally, in my games I do not allow a spell to be affected by a meta-magic feat more than once.

me either. but this probably belongs in rules....


joe b.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The rules are grey on the area regarding whether a feat can be used multiple times on the same spell. Some figure you can because the rules don't say you can't. Some figure you can't because the rule say you can.

This leaves the fallback everyone should be using: is it reasonable to allow someone to increase Dex by (1d4+1)x2.5 for basically the whole day as an 8th level spell reasonable? Now, what if this was stored on, say, a Staff of Buff Cubed (bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance; all empower x3; caster level 15; base cost 180K gp; cost to create 90K gp and 3600 XP) with 50 charges?

No offense intended, but I think you should consider your own question carefully before answering.

Stop and look at other 8th level buffs spells. They are pretty freaking powerful. We see things like Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, and Iron Body. All of those look a lot more impressive than 5-12 points of Dex.

Your proposed "abusive" sample item is a joke. I would choose a Ring of Mind Shield (90k), Mantle of Resistance (90k), or Robe of Eyes (90k) over your "superitem" any day of the week.

The other route is to pick up, say, a Manual of Quickness in Action +5 (137,500) plus Gloves of Dexterity +6 (36000) for a permenant +11 to my Dex, and I never have to worry about charges or having my day ruined by a targetted Dispel.

I have see no evidence that multiply Empowered spells cause balance problems. If you disagree, please provide a better example. Your staff might look good for a disposable PC played at a one session only con event, but it would get laughed at my gaming table.

 

[Oni]

FAQ says you can. Check the section on metamagic.

 

[shilsen]

What Oni said. Here's the relevant section:

You can apply most metamagic feats more than once. Just
stack up the costs and remember to apply the additional effects
to the basic spell. For example, if you extend a spell twice, you
get 3 times the duration, not 4 times the duration.