4 classes...major or minor effect?

twjensen -
But I'm not sure that is the case for PC's. The common folk are harvesting and gaining their skill in Farming, the craftsman are adding to their Craft skill and maybe Appraisal and some other business type skills, the King's Alchemist is getting better at solving mysteries man was not meant to know.
The PC's on the other hand are out adventuring. The are supposed to be able to do things. A Fighter with 2 skill points can't learn much of anything and if he thinks of cross-class skills it even gets worse.

Does adding skill points "ruin" the flavor of the game or does it provide more role-playing options through a rounded out character?
 

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Does adding skill points "ruin" the flavor of the game or does it provide more role-playing options through a rounded out character?

There was an Asgard article a month or two back concerning that very topic. IMO, the system that was presented there would be very appropriate for a modern setting, but less so for a medieval setting.

Basically, that system gave every character double the skill points at first level, but required that the extras be spent on "useless" skills that just further background development.
 

Mind you, this is a very rough outline, but . . .

Magus:

Gaining Spell Levels: You automatically have the ability to cast 0th level spells. Additionally, you freely gain the ability to cast the next higher spell level at every odd level, so a 1st level Magus can cast 0th and 1st level spells, while a 9th level Magus can cast spells from 0th to 5th level. For each spell level you can cast, you automatically have 1 spell slot of that level.

For the ability to know spells or prepare spells, you must use magic points.

Magic Points:25 magic points at 1st level. 10 per level thereafter.

Spending Magic Points: 5 points to gain the ability to prepare cantrips. 10 points to increase the level of spells you can prepare. This gives you access to all spells of a given level, assuming you can find a source to prepare them from (i.e., spellbook).

4 points to gain a spell slot of your highest available level. 2 points for 1 level lower. 1 point for 2 levels or more lower. So for a 5th level Magus to buy a 3rd, 2nd, and 1st level spell would cost
7 points (since 3rd level is his normal maximum).

4 points to gain the ability to spontaneously cast a spell of your highest available level. 2 points for 1 level lower, and 1 point for 2 or more levels lower. This includes things like sorcerous and bardic spontaneous casting, plus the clerical ability to convert spells to cures or inflicts.

5 points for a magical feat (metamagic, spell focus, item creation, etc) or for a magical power that scales with your level, like Turn Undead or Smite. 3 or 4 points for powers that don't scale with your level, like Woodland Stride or Nature Sense. Most domain abilities are available in this way, but actual domain spell lists don't matter, since all spells are available on the spell list.

Alternately, I might just make things like Turn Undead be spells that Magi could learn to spontaneously cast.

I'll post an example in the next reply.
 
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Here are some sample Magi. See a previous post for rules information. The first character, Mialee, is an effort to emulate the traditional wizard using my rules. The second, Hennet, emulates a sorcerer. Then the third, Hunter, is an amalgam, trying to create something of a spontaneous druid.

Mialee, 7th level Elf Magus

Magic Points: 85 (25 at 1st level, and 10 more per level thereafter).

Base Magical Powers: Mialee can cast spells of up to 4th level, and has 1 spell slot at each level from 0th to 4th. Without spending her magic points, though, she only has worthless slots.

Abilities bought at 1st level: Summon Familiar (5), Prepare Cantrips (5), Prepare 1st level spells (10), Scribe Scroll Feat (5). Note that this is identical to the standard PHB wizard, except that she has 2 fewer cantrip slots. Spell slots by level: 1 1

Abilities bought at 2nd level: Three cantrip spell slots (6), one 1st level spell slot (4). Now she's back on par with a PHB wizard. Spell slots by level: 4 2

Abilities bought at 3rd level: Ability to prepare 2nd level spells (10). Still on par. Spell slots by level: 4 2 1

Abilities bought at 4th level: One 2nd level spell slot (4) and one 1st level spell slot (2). Four spare magic points, so she's actually ahead of the PHB wizard. Spell slots by level: 4 3 2

Abilities bought at 5th level: With 14 points at this level, she gets Ability to prepare 3rd level spells (10) and an extra 3rd level spell slot (4). She's missing out on the bonus feat, which she'll get next level, but she's a little ahead as far as spell slots. Spell slots by level: 4 3 2 2

Abilities bought at 6th level: Bonus feat (5), extra 2nd level spell slot (2). She has 3 spare points that she could spend on some magical ability if she wants, putting her slightly ahead of the core PHB Wizard. Spell slots by level: 4 3 3 2

Abilities bought at 7th level: Ability to prepare 4th level spells (10). Spell slots by level: 4 3 3 2 1

From here on out, Mialee is pretty much true to the PHB wizard, sometimes a little behind, sometimes a little ahead, and she can use her occasional extra points to buy a small ability or an extra spell slot. Nothing too terribly unbalancing.



Hennet, 7th level Human Magus

Magic Points: 85 (25 at 1st level, and 10 more per level thereafter).

Base Magical Powers: Hennet can cast spells of up to 4th level, and has 1 spell slot at each level from 0th to 4th. Without spending his magic points, though, he only has worthless slots. Note that this automatically puts Hennet a little ahead of the core sorcerer, since he'll be getting access to new spell levels at the same speed as wizards, instead of one slower.

Abilities bought at 1st level: Summon Familiar (5), knows two 1st level spells (8) and 4 cantrips (8). Two extra cantrip slots (4). This is significantly behind the core PHB sorcerer, who has two more cantrip spell slots and 2 more 1st level spell slots. Spell slots by level: 3 1. Spells known: 4 2

Abilities bought at 2nd level: One cantrip spell slot (2), two 1st level spell slots (8). He's still behind the core PHB sorcerer by one cantrip known, two cantrip slots, and one 1st level slot. Spell slots by level: 4 3. Spells known: 4 2

Abilities bought at 3rd level: In an effort to stay true to the core sorcerer, though he has a 2nd level spell slot, he won't learn any 2nd level spells. Instead, he gets two more cantrip slots (2), two more 1st level slots (4), one cantrip known (1), and one 1st level spell known (2).

Thus, he knows the same number of spells as a 3rd level sorcerer, has slightly more spell slots, and has 1 spare magic point. Spell slots by level: 6 5 1. Spells known: 5 3

Abilities bought at 4th level: With 11 magic points for this level, Hennet decides to learn one 2nd level spell (4) and one cantrip (1), plus gets one 2nd level spell slot (4) and one 1st level spell slot (2). He's behind again, just barely, by one 2nd level slot. Spell slots by level: 6 6 2. Spells known: 6 3 1

Abilities bought at 5th level: Again, though he technically could learn 3rd level spells, he won't. Instead, he gets two 2nd level spell slots (4), and learns a 1st (1) and 2nd level spell (2). He saves the 3 spare points. He's slightly ahead. Spell slots by level: 6 6 4 1. Spells known: 6 4 2

Abilities bought at 6th level: Hennet has 13 points here, so he learns a 3rd level spell (4), and a cantrip (1), plus gets two extra 3rd level slots (8). Spell slots by level: 6 6 4 3. Spells known: 7 4 2 1

Abilities bought at 7th level: He decides not to get any 4th level spells, though he can. He learns a 1st (1), 2nd (1), and 3rd (2) level spell. He also gets two 2nd level (2) and one 3rd level (2) spell slot. He has two spare points, as usual.

Much like Mialee as a Sorcerer, Hennet stays consistenly close to what the PHB presents, either a little high or a little low, but not far off.



Hunter, 7th level Human Magus

Magic Points: 85 (25 at 1st level, and 10 more per level thereafter).

Base Magical Powers: Hunter can cast spells of up to 4th level, and has 1 spell slot at each level from 0th to 4th. Without spending his magic points, though, he only has worthless slots. Hunter is going to be vaguely akin to a Druid, but he'll have more versatile magic abilities at the expense of the extra combat abilities and HP that druids get.

Abilities bought at 1st level: Nature sense (3, non-scaling power). Two cantrip slots (4). Ability to prepare cantrips (5) and 1st level spells (10). Saves the 3 spare magic points. Spell slots by level: 3 1

Abilities bought at 2nd level: Has 13 points to spend. One cantrip spell slot (2), one 1st level spell slots (4). Woodland stride (3). Learns calm animals as a 1st level spell (4), so he can either prepare spells, or convert a prepared slot into calm animals. Spell slots by level: 4 2. Spells known: 0 1

Abilities bought at 3rd level: Ability to prepare 2nd level spells (10). Spell slots by level: 4 2 1. Spells known: 0 1 0

Abilities bought at 4th level: Gains a cantrip slot (1), 1st level slot (2), and a 2nd level slot (4). He also gets trackless step (3). Spell slots by level: 5 3 2. Spells known: 0 1 0

Abilities bought at 5th level: Ability to prepare 3rd level spells (10). Spell slots by level: 5 3 2 1. Spells known: 0 1 0 0

Abilities bought at 6th level: Gets a 2nd and 3rd level spell slot (6). Then learns a 3rd level spell (4 points, in this case, wild shape, which I made up; it's basically a weaker version of polymorph self that can only turn into animals). Spell slots by level: 5 3 3 2. Spells known: 0 1 0 1

Abilities bought at 7th level: He decides not to get any extra 4th level spell slots, though he can. Instead, he gets a 1st (1), 2nd (1), and two 3rd (4) level spell slots. He also learns cure serious wounds, cure moderate wounds, and cure light wounds (4 points total), so he can convert to them spontaneously. He's got a fair deal of diversity.

He's not quite as powerful as a normal druid in combat, but a normal druid can't prepare fireball spells, and a normal wizard can't cast healing spells. I like the variety. What do you think?
 

By the way, I'd say that the primary ability for Magus spellcasting can be up to the character. At character creation, he chooses which stat (Int, Wis, or Cha) affects his spells. Bonus spell slots and save DC mods.
 



Hey RW

We are starting a new campaign on Sat. We ar going with only three core classes (the armsman, channeler, and expert). The armsman is your fighter type, channeler is the mage (using your base set-up, but not going with spell points), and the expert (craftsman, rogue, etc.)
Will let you know how it goes.
 

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