D&D General 40 Year D&D Campaign

[GMforPowergamers]

I was 7 when I was first introduced to 1E AD&D. There was a mystique about it. Only the DM knew "all" the rules, helped you make your PC, and for players the DMG & MM were hands off. Now 40 years later I know that's a crock of naughty word, but seems like this guy still plays like that.

i wonder if the fact that I was older (16) effected that or if it was since I had to DM since day 1... I not only made the players read the basics...but I FORCED THEM TO KNOW EVERYPART OF THE CLASS THEY TOOK..

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Though I'd never actually do it, after however many number of PCs insisting that they can sleep in their medium and heavy armor without any issues, I almost understand dictating that they're sleeping like people actually sleep.

He dictates that the group goes to rest and dictates that they are all asleep in their beds, basically naked and with their equipment stowed.

 

[Oofta]

Though I'd never actually do it, after however many number of PCs insisting that they can sleep in their medium and heavy armor without any issues, I almost understand dictating that they're sleeping like people actually sleep.

I admit it's a pet peeve of mine, but do you know how well you can sleep in any kind of armor? Because I don't. Any armor that offers any kind of significant protection is not going to be super comfortable. Even leather armor has to more then just a leather jacket without sleeves. In addition for most of human history the majority of people slept on straw mats on the floor, modern beds were a 19th century invention. I used to camp a lot and never used a sleeping pad, sleeping on solid rock isn't a big deal if you're tired.

If you believe you are in a safe place not taking precautions is understandable. Otherwise? I never penalize people for wearing armor, PCs that rely on armor (and strength based characters) are already penalized in so many ways for the minimal benefit they get anyway.

 

[Mort]

Though I'd never actually do it, after however many number of PCs insisting that they can sleep in their medium and heavy armor without any issues, I almost understand dictating that they're sleeping like people actually sleep.

If a person wants to sleep in Armor, just about every game system has some kind of rules for that (5e certainly does) and I all but guarantee this guys world does (he seems VERY detail oriented). Just point out the possible penalties and if the person is willing to live with it - let them do it.

It's more than just that though. I just can't imagine dictating that the party is totally unprepared (without any input) and then springing an ambush on them - that's seems pretty big anti-agency no-no. And it's mean besides.

 

[R_J_K75]

i wonder if the fact that I was older (16) effected that or if it was since I had to DM since day 1... I not only made the players read the basics...but I FORCED THEM TO KNOW EVERYPART OF THE CLASS THEY TOOK..

I think its that you had a few years on me.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Heck, even my leather jacket isn't great for sleeping a full eight hours in!

I rarely spring killer encounters on people in the middle of the night for a similar reason. Once in a while, sure, they might get attacked in the middle of the night, but if they're going to get attacked while camping, it's generally going to be before they've settled in for the night. Unless they do something dumb like alpha strike the previous encounter and then try to take a long rest outside the villain's lair or something.

I admit it's a pet peeve of mine, but do you know how well you can sleep in any kind of armor? Because I don't. Any armor that offers any kind of significant protection is not going to be super comfortable. Even leather armor has to more then just a leather jacket without sleeves. In addition for most of human history the majority of people slept on straw mats on the floor, modern beds were a 19th century invention. I used to camp a lot and never used a sleeping pad, sleeping on solid rock isn't a big deal if you're tired.

If you believe you are in a safe place not taking precautions is understandable. Otherwise? I never penalize people for wearing armor, PCs that rely on armor (and strength based characters) are already penalized in so many ways for the minimal benefit they get anyway.

Oh, definitely, but I've had players argue that that shouldn't apply to them for reasons X, Y, and Z. I've also seen it as a player where the DM doesn't enforce those rules and I'm the only one fighting with just a shield because that's all I had time to grab.

If a person wants to sleep in Armor, just about every game system has some kind of rules for that (5e certainly does) and I all but guarantee this guys world does (he seems VERY detail oriented). Just point out the possible penalties and if the person is willing to live with it - let them do it.

Yeah, that part's not cool at all. It sounds like the ambush happened because that's what the DM wanted to have happen. Which granted, that will always be the partial driver for an adventure. But when it overrides player agency that is a total problem. As much as I might want them to attack the necromancer so this cool idea I have can happen, I can't just say "you attack the necromancer." Even if it's a foregone conclusion, they still get to decide if they plan an ambush, try to talk to the necromancer first, or whatever.

It's more than just that though. I just can't imagine dictating that the party is totally unprepared (without any input) and then springing an ambush on them - that's seems pretty big anti-agency no-no. And it's mean besides.

 

[Lanefan]

Heck, even my leather jacket isn't great for sleeping a full eight hours in!

I rarely spring killer encounters on people in the middle of the night for a similar reason. Once in a while, sure, they might get attacked in the middle of the night, but if they're going to get attacked while camping, it's generally going to be before they've settled in for the night. Unless they do something dumb like alpha strike the previous encounter and then try to take a long rest outside the villain's lair or something.

If my dice* tell me they get hit in the middle of the night then they get hit in the middle of the night, by something at least vaguely appropriate to where they are.

* - or the backstory, as in when a party once found a hidden cabin in the woods near a dungeon site and decided to use it as an R&R base, not realizing it already had an at-the-time-away occupant. Occupant returned late that night, party got clobbered. Next night something from the dungeon tracked them to their base (i.e. a rolled wandering monster, skewed to suit the situation), party got clobbered again, leading to a now-famous player quote: "If we rest up here and recuperate long enough we'll all be dead."

They found another base, and from there proceeded to complete the mission as expected.

As for sleeping in armour, I allow sleeping in leather or Elven-chain but that's it.

 

[Oofta]

Heck, even my leather jacket isn't great for sleeping a full eight hours in!
...

Let me see, I've slept with multiple socks, sweatpants over jeans, a couple of t-shirts, shirt, jacket, hat ... basically every item of clothing I owned. Oh, and it was in a dormant volcano so sleeping on volcanic rock.

I'm not saying it was the best night's sleep I've ever had but after most of a day hiking to get to the top of the volcano I was fine if a bit stiff. I think people who have never had to sleep in adverse conditions overestimate the need for a soft comfy bed (that, again, most people throughout history have not had access to). As long as you aren't miserably cold and wet or incredibly hot I've always been able to get a decent nights sleep when I needed it.

It's just one of those assumptions, like people in full plate needing a crane to get on a horse. I know for a fact that you didn't need a crane, I sincerely doubt you couldn't sleep in armor if you've been active all day. Of course if you were in what you consider a safe place you're going to get comfy. Other than that? It's always been a weird thing to penalize PCs for considering everything else we ignore.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I've likewise slept, or attempted to, in many many layers, albeit not in a dormant volcano! I suppose part of it is that I'm the kind of sleeper that will struggle to get a good night's sleep even if I'm in the most perfect sleeping environment imaginable sometimes.

Let me see, I've slept with multiple socks, sweatpants over jeans, a couple of t-shirts, shirt, jacket, hat ... basically every item of clothing I owned. Oh, and it was in a dormant volcano so sleeping on volcanic rock.

I'm not saying it was the best night's sleep I've ever had but after most of a day hiking to get to the top of the volcano I was fine if a bit stiff. I think people who have never had to sleep in adverse conditions overestimate the need for a soft comfy bed (that, again, most people throughout history have not had access to). As long as you aren't miserably cold and wet or incredibly hot I've always been able to get a decent nights sleep when I needed it.

It's just one of those assumptions, like people in full plate needing a crane to get on a horse. I know for a fact that you didn't need a crane, I sincerely doubt you couldn't sleep in armor if you've been active all day. Of course if you were in what you consider a safe place you're going to get comfy. Other than that? It's always been a weird thing to penalize PCs for considering everything else we ignore.

 

[Mannahnin]

I've slept in a breastplate, though not a full suit of plate. It's not horrible if you've got some padding to help support your head. Definitely going to be problematic if you try to roll over or onto your side in your sleep, but if you're exhausted and sleeping like the dead, you mostly need to make sure your joints (especially your neck) are reasonably supported. It'll be a recipe for illness/fungal stuff if you sleep in your wargear/wear it continually for an extended period, but a night or two in a desperate situation can work.

Sleeping in a mail hauberk is worse, because the links weigh down on your chest when you lie back, and constrict your breathing. At least a breastplate is self-supporting.