[4e] Campaign Ideas...

[RigaMortus2]

When I DM, I like to try new and different things. Non-typical plots and story. Things I've never seen done before in an RPG.

So, I've had this idea for awhile now and I'd like to impliment it in a new campaign. I wanted some feedback and ideas from the community. A few things first...

1) I have this fascination with time travel in campaigns I create. I like the different takes on time travel. I like that actions you take can alter what may happen or what has already happened. I've already done a campaign like that with Arcana Evolved, and I am looking to borrow ideas from it (we'll get into that below) and take it in another direction.

2) Since 3e, our group rarely plays the higher levels. In 3e, I think the highest level character was 13. In 4e, we haven't made it past like 5th so far (out of like 3 short-lived campaigns). I've always wanted to try out Epic Level combat, so I am going to incorporate that.

3) I like to start campaigns and have the over-all arching story/plot take characters from level 1 all the way to max level (in 4e's case, level 30).

So here are my thoughts...

I am going for a Memento or LOST flashback kind of feel for this game.

I am going to have the players create 2 versions of their characters. One at 1st level, and one at 30th level. The campaign will start out with their level 30 selves, standing in front of a portal. Perhaps standing in front of an army (on level 30 minions) that they have to wade through to get to the portal. Some Epic Level combat may ensue. The players (and their characters) won't know or remember why they are there (yet). After we get a taste of some Epic level fun, we flash to their level 1 selves, and the real story begins...

So, a few problems with this idea come to mind, which I think I figured out how to handle...

Problem 1: The players may realize or joke that, their character's are invincible. Obvisiously they know they "made it" to level 30, so perhaps their actions through levels 1 - 30 don't matter? They aren't going to die in combat, right? They know they made it to level 30, so perhaps they can be wreckless!

Possible Solutions (this is what I need advice on):

1) I was considering requiring all character's to be the Deva race. The fluff on the Deva race is that, when they die, they are reborn to fulfill some role or quest. So, it is quite possible their level 30 selves aren't the original level 1 selves they started out with. Perhaps they did die through the course of 30 levels somewhere along the way, and they don't know it yet (it hasn't been played out. Because of the racial requirement I am imposing, I would allow the player's to choose their racial ability modifiers.

2) Require the players create Deva race as above, allow them to pick their ability modifiers. Should they die, allow them to create whatever class/race they would like. This will give them a hint of what is going on. Of course, they would also then know that they are going to HAVE to die again, to revert to their original selves at level 30 (which I am OK with).

3) Let the players choose whatever class/race they would like. Then, create a customized background (which they won't know their character has), something like Deva-born. The background grants them the ability to be reborn when they die, just like the Deva. I'll tell them we aren't using background, but secretly they all have this, and all iterations of their characters (should they die along the way) will also have this to explain why they appear to be the same person from level 1 - 30.

4) Let the players choose whatever race/class they would like. Should they die, require that their new character is a Deva. This will give them a hint of what is going on (Oh, we have some sort of Deva-blood, so when we die, we are reborn into Deva's). Of course, they would also then know that they are going to HAVE to die again, to revert to their original selves at level 30 (which I am OK with).

So, any ideas on the best approach here? I like giving players as much choice and flexability as possible. So I am leaning towards 3, 4 as a second choice.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Trying to break this up so it is easier to read/respond to.

As the lower level character's advance through the story/plot, their level 30 selves will gain knowledge. An example idea of this is as I mentioned before, where they start out in front of a portal (which isn't activated yet). Are they there to enter the portal? To destroy it? To prevent something from coming through? To meet and escort a visitor coming through it?

One clue they will have is Infernal writing that has the word "Abbyss" somewhere on the portal (should someone be able to decipher).

Now, when their lower level selves adventure, one of their quests will be them obtaining a magic key (probably level 1 - 3 adventure). So they will obtain this key pretty early in their adventuring lives. When this quest is over, I am going to flash back to their level 30 versions, and see how they now react to this new information. IMy hopes is that the player who obtained the key looks on their person for it, because he will find it, and the key will activate the portal!

So, that is the type of thing I am going for her. Their lower level selves will give their higher level selves more and more information (and items) as the story progresses. Its like time travel without the time travel, which is why I liken it to the flashbacks from LOST.

So, I am looking for advice and ideas mostly on other things I can include that their lower level selves may discover which I can incorporate into their level 30 selves. Perhaps a ruler they may have helped comes to their aid? Or a ruler they have screwed over becomes a thorn in their side later on?

 

[RigaMortus2]

This is the last bits of information I am adding at this time...

I read the article about the Demonomicon and Oublivae and I really like what I read. So I am going to heavily borrow from this.

In particular, I like the idea that the PCs live in the Abyss, and they don't realize it. So, until the book comes out, I need to find logical ways to express this. Why would the PCs and NPCs not realize they are in the Abyss?

Some of my thoughts on this...

It is a Points of Light setting. They live in a rather large city, and it is magically protected. It is ruled by a Deva (playing up that Deva aspect from earlier) who worships a good deity (like Pelor). The Deva ruler knows the town is in the Abyss, but doesn't tell anyone for whatever reason (we can make up something here). I am thinking the town got shifted into the Abyss. The official town religion is Pelor. It is well known that demons (really demons, not just using that as an adjective) roam the coutry-side. It isn't necessarily forbidden to leave the town, but if you choose to do so, you are never allowed back in. There have been incidents in the past where adventurerers would leave and come back to town possessed and wreck havoc.

So, the portal with the word Abyss on it from the post above, doesn't note where the portal goes, it notes where the portal is located (in the Abysss). So, where does the portal go? Dum, dum, dum...

Anyone, wanted to jot down my ideas for a campaign idea so far, want others to chime in with advice and ideas of their own

 

[Camelot]

You could simply let them find ritual scrolls for Raise Dead during their adventures that they can save for when they die. Thus, getting to level 30 is no problem for the original character, without having to make up all that deva stuff. Or they could get the Pelor clerics to raise their dead comrades, before they leave the city at least.

As long as you don't let on that you're keeping them alive, you can do so while still having the players think that death looms just around the corner.

 

[steeldragons]

Wow...This is a fascinating concept for a campaign...

Personally, I'm immediately struck with the idea that they have knowledge of their 30th level selves but no knowledge/information how they got there.

A lot can happen in a persons life, especially an adventuring one, and one never knows where they'll end up...well, mostly.

Magic items come and go. Levels can be added and/or taken away. Hell, maybe somebody runs afoul of a cursed item or something and gets gender swapped. It's a rough world...Abyss or not. Maybe they begin their careers NOT in this town in the Abyss but have found their way there by 30th level. Maybe somewhere around 15th level, one of the fighter characters gets sick of getting clobbered all of the time, says "screw this" and starts studying magic. An elf character gets polymorphed into a halfling or some such. Someone gets turned to stone and falls behind in the progression while the others advance trying to cure them.

So...one thought is, let them generate their 30th level character, but YOU create their 1st.

Some bit of memory loss will be required to make this work. Like, they know they NEED to get to 30th level butthey don't remember why or how they got there.

I'm thinking something along the lines of a scene like this:
They are before the portal, surrounded by overwhelming odds. They are destined to be the saviors of this town/realm/city in the Abyss but through magical (or maybe divine?) interference or (insert convenient plot device here) now that they are on the threshold of their destiny, they don't know what they have to do. "Really? I'm a cleric?" "How do I wield this weapon?" "What is this special looking doo-hicky for?"

In the split seconds of battle, a wizardy friend (I'm thinking a Merlin-figure they meet and befriend in their journeys, but perhaps the great deva ruler, im/herself?) casts a spell to take them BACK through their adventuring careers...to regain all they are supposed to know.

By the limits of the spell, every 5 levels or so they return to the "present" and their 30th level selves (practically no time passing from the time they left the "last stand"). They may be able to relate or advance some small amount t these intervals but will need to be sent "back" to learn more...well, if every 5 levels, 6 times to get to 30th.

When they return AS their 30th level selves, they have all of the items and knowledge they need and began/created their characters with and can have the knock-down drag-out final climax battle and (hopefully) win the day.

 

[steeldragons]

If someone dies...

In the event someone dies, it's simply up to the others to get them back somehow...they know they have to get to that point (though they may not remember the portal or anything else) but they know they have their destiny, that ALL of them must be there. So...if someone needs to be raised...or reincarnated (that'd be fun) then the rest of the party KNOWS they have to do that.

And I just had the thought, that those instantaneous moments every so many levels that they are brought "back to the future" (in intermediate levels) they return AS the intermediate character....So the mage-guy or girl who sent them back can look at them and know they aren't who they need to be yet..."Hm. There were 5 of you. Now there's only 4 and one of those is a hamster...Well, that's not right."...and back they go to continue their way.

Their return, again, wipes their memory of that future...taking them right back to where they were. Yes, this will take some doing on the player's part, but like you know said, they already know they're making it to 30th level...so they should be able to ignore these little "check in's". They know they have some great destiny to achieve...they know they ALL must get there...

Maybe, the closer they get, the more they remember/realize...like at 15th level when returned to their future, the Merlin-guy, knowing they're still not ready has time to ask "Have you dfound the wutzit of who yet? You need the wutzit of who!" and back to their pasts they go...but they recall that they must seek out the wutzit of who.

I'm thinking this might be good so even when the characters gain a few levels, they don't get into their head that they can just take on the "last stand" situation as is.

Just kinda, stream of consciousing it...but hope, maybe, some of it might be useable.

 

[knightofround]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend forcing the PCs to be Devas, that's way too gimmicky.

What is the party going to be looking like?

Perhaps the party realizes that in order to save the world, they need to go back in time and change a few key things. However, they know that they're going to lose more and more memories the further back they go. So, they hop backwards in little jumps, leaving clues at key locations to remind themselves what they need to do.

You could even have two copies of the party. You would run the "futuristic" party as NPCs (deleveled the further they go back in time), and the players would be the "original" party. Or vice-versua.

That's a pretty powerful hook, imo. If a copy of your future self shows up with some written message that you need to save the universe, and both of you are clueless.

Another thing to keep in mind is that its fine for people to roll different characters. The composition of an adventuring party may change several times before getting to the end. The nice thing about time travel campaigns is that its always easy to retcon. Just because the *futuristic* PCs were in the adventuring party trying to save the world, doesn't mean that the *current* adventuring party needs to have the same people. In fact, meeting one of those characters (perhaps even turning them into a villian!) could be a key turning point in the campaign.

 

[steeldragons]

Good points. I like the turning villain hook.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm thinking something along the lines of a scene like this:
They are before the portal, surrounded by overwhelming odds. They are destined to be the saviors of this town/realm/city in the Abyss but through magical (or maybe divine?) interference or (insert convenient plot device here) now that they are on the threshold of their destiny, they don't know what they have to do. "Really? I'm a cleric?" "How do I wield this weapon?" "What is this special looking doo-hicky for?"

In the split seconds of battle, a wizardy friend (I'm thinking a Merlin-figure they meet and befriend in their journeys, but perhaps the great deva ruler, im/herself?) casts a spell to take them BACK through their adventuring careers...to regain all they are supposed to know.

By the limits of the spell, every 5 levels or so they return to the "present" and their 30th level selves (practically no time passing from the time they left the "last stand"). They may be able to relate or advance some small amount t these intervals but will need to be sent "back" to learn more...well, if every 5 levels, 6 times to get to 30th.

When they return AS their 30th level selves, they have all of the items and knowledge they need and began/created their characters with and can have the knock-down drag-out final climax battle and (hopefully) win the day.

That is exactly what I am going for. They have to re-trace their steps, or re-do their lives, and as they progress, their higher level selves will start to remember important bits and pieces.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend forcing the PCs to be Devas, that's way too gimmicky.

What is the party going to be looking like?

Perhaps the party realizes that in order to save the world, they need to go back in time and change a few key things. However, they know that they're going to lose more and more memories the further back they go. So, they hop backwards in little jumps, leaving clues at key locations to remind themselves what they need to do.

You could even have two copies of the party. You would run the "futuristic" party as NPCs (deleveled the further they go back in time), and the players would be the "original" party. Or vice-versua.

That's a pretty powerful hook, imo. If a copy of your future self shows up with some written message that you need to save the universe, and both of you are clueless.

Another thing to keep in mind is that its fine for people to roll different characters. The composition of an adventuring party may change several times before getting to the end. The nice thing about time travel campaigns is that its always easy to retcon. Just because the *futuristic* PCs were in the adventuring party trying to save the world, doesn't mean that the *current* adventuring party needs to have the same people. In fact, meeting one of those characters (perhaps even turning them into a villian!) could be a key turning point in the campaign.

Some good ideas, though I don't think I am ever going to have them meet themselves.

I am trying to keep them as the same "people" from level 1 to level 30. Now "people" could simply mean they are the same souls, just in different bodies (how did that happen)? Or perhaps Polymorphed? Or perhaps body swapped...

If a PC dies, and I go the who "we need to Rezz him" route, then I have to worry about the player having to make a new replacement PC (so he can continue to play) just to help Rez his deceased character. Thats the only problem with that one...