[4E +] Dear wizards of the coast,

[Thanee]

Yesh! "The Expedition to..." format is indeed great, but we're talking forty bucks for an adventure, which is fine every now and then, just not every adventure. I'm hoping we'll get some super adventures that are at LEAST 256 pages, just not a bunch, maybe one a year?

Maybe the Giant box will be a bit bigger (pun pun not intended).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

You know, I never got to play spelljammer, but I had two of the boxed sets, some adventures, and at least one of the old 'monstrous compendium' inserts for it. I'm hoping this time, i'll get to play it. I never really saw the 'sillyness' of spelljammer until much later in life [like, the giant hamsters and stuff]. When I read the books, it came across as a combination of star wars and pirates to me. It really blew me away back in the day.
I haven't yet hit the 'nightmarish drag' in 3.5, but then again my highest level character was a 5th level monk. He sure did whiff a lot though!

Well I love the silly stuff in Spelljammer If you can't have a laugh...yer doing somehting wrong, is my opinion
I love the gritty brutality of Dark Sun and horror of Ravenloft, but for goodness sake, you need FUN at times! Rollicking buckle-me-swash adventures with mad gnomes, FLEETS of mind flayers and beholders, undead pirates and exploding giff, woot!

Oh, 3.5 becomes bad for the DM pretty quickly (making NPCs up, then at higher levels the difficulty of making truly balanced encounters and way you are limited to just a few beasties etc, sucks, ugh.)

And if you want more Spelljammer piccies
SPELLJAMMER intro page

 

[FireLance]

I think you may be right. How do I ask the mods to move this? Do I report my OP? Do I ask the mods to put it in the best place, or do I just request the thread be moved to a specific location?

I think the best thing to do would be to post a request in the Meta forum.

 

[jephlewis]

Maybe the Giant box will be a bit bigger (pun pun not intended).

Amazon is currently showing it as a 160 page hardcover; I guess I can hope that it's part one of a trilogy, right? I'll have to look at it before I judge it. If this is what it's based on, great! I'll expect to see a lot of things fleshed out.

I liked 3.5's expedition to castle ravenloft because they expanded a 32 page adventure into a ginormous hardcover; like, lots of stuff not in the old adventure. That's what i'm hoping for in this current edition; some old, small adventures expanded greatly.

Well I love the silly stuff in Spelljammer If you can't have a laugh...yer doing somehting wrong, is my opinion

It's not that I didn't like the silly stuff, I just didn't pick up on it. Like, instead of me looking at the space hamster and thinking, "cool! space hamster!", I was just like "that's weird" and went to look at that zohar? zodar? that fully armored, didn't talk guy. It's like the silly stuff didn't really stick out to me as silly at the time.

I love the gritty brutality of Dark Sun and horror of Ravenloft, but for goodness sake, you need FUN at times! Rollicking buckle-me-swash adventures with mad gnomes, FLEETS of mind flayers and beholders, undead pirates and exploding giff, woot!

See, this is kinda what I got off of spelljammer when I first read it.

Oh, 3.5 becomes bad for the DM pretty quickly (making NPCs up, then at higher levels the difficulty of making truly balanced encounters and way you are limited to just a few beasties etc, sucks, ugh.)

No doubt; I just hadn't experienced it, nor did my DM at the time.

I think the best thing to do would be to post a request in the Meta forum.

No need, my good man; the old ones heard my supplications and were able to intrude upon this disgusting euclidean thing we call 'reality' to bring this thread where they desired [or...you know, maybe a mod read the thread and my request or something].

 

[Greg K]

as do 99% of the people on these boards.

Glad you like it, but, if anything, the polls here would suggest otherwise

 

[Jasperak]

Well, not much to say other than that I agree with a lot of what you are saying- as do 99% of the people on these boards.

No they don't. These are not the WOTC boards.

 

[Greg K]

Maybe i'm late to the party? It took me a while to read through the 4E books; i'm still not completely done, but i'm done enough to be able to say there's some things I like.

Overall, I am not a fan, but here is what I do like:

1. XP Costs gone
2. No level drain
3. Removing most non racial abilities from Race.
4. Unified Saving Throw progression with initial class bonus
5. Heroic Tier multiclassing (for the most part)
6. Passive Skill Checks
7. Rituals (for the most part)
8. Feywild and Shadowfell
9. Spellcasters are balanced.
10. Saves as Defense
11. class options (E.g, Brawny Rogue, Trickster Roguel )
12. More starting hit points and how con modifies hit points.

Things that I am glade were included, but not the implementation
- Action Points
- Healing Surges

 

[Felon]

Jeph, your accolades sound premature. Exhaustive reading and screeding is all well and good, but there's something to actually playing that is very telling.

I was all set up to be the gushing fanboy myself, but man playing it has just gotten me more and more sensitive to its shortcomings.

Well, not much to say other than that I agree with a lot of what you are saying- as do 99% of the people on these boards.

OK, 99% is just a bogus flamebait number.

 

[Mournblade94]

Well, not much to say other than that I agree with a lot of what you are saying- as do 99% of the people on these boards.

I recently had the opportunity to check out a lot of the Star Wars Saga Edition (SWSE) material. I had heard long ago that this setting was going to be the testing ground for much of what made it into 4E.

I was really surprised by what I saw in the SWSE core book and even more so by the visceral and negative response that I had to the ruleset.

I played 3.X from the day it was released until the day that 4E came out. I was excited for a new edition, and was aware of many of the changes before it hit the shelves, but at the time couldnt really comprehend just how much better 4E, as a game system, was going to be.

Going back and looking at "the missing link" that is SWSE was both intriguing and horrifying. You can see the parallels and thought process that went into 4E, but at the same time, you realize what 4E could have been had they not gone the extra mile to streamline the ruleset- and it wouldnt have been anywhere as pretty as it is now.

It was like looking at Frankenstein, or some alien-human hybrid. I realized just how far the system had come and really, for the first time, just how akward and challenging the 3.X rules really were.

If they upgraded the SWSE game system to more closely mirror 4E, I would gladly pick up the books and play Star Wars like I did in the old days, but as it stands, I find it hard to look at the hideous abomination.

For those of you that have some time on your hands, check it out and see what you think.

And also, yeah- this should go into another forum.

WHOA!!! Saving throw versus melodrama!!!

HORRIFIED??? Did the evil sith in the book come out and scare you with their BAB. Were you horrified at their lack of powers which would make the jedi as powerful as a protocol droid? (After all the Jedi SHOULD be balanced to a protocol droid). Or was it.. yes the worst... this must have been horrifying... they say a square is equal to 5 feet instead of simplifying it to 1 square!!! You mean diagonal movement SHOULD cost more! Truly the Great Old one had his hand in creating Star Wars saga!


99% THats a funny number.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

[sblock][note: I’ve posted this here because I come to this site more often than the official forums, and the wotc forums haven’t displayed correctly on my screen for many months]

Dear Wizards of the coast,

In 2007 before the release of 4E, many people voiced concerns about what 4E would be like mechanically.

I was one of those people, and I wanted to say that 4E appears to have blown my socks off. I say ‘appears’ because I haven’t played it yet. I’ve read through it though, and have currently been going through open grave because it was just shipped to me. I want to talk about some specifics:

Whitespace in the books: I’m okay with it; in fact, it’s easier for me to read the 4E books because of it. A

The powers: everybody gets them, not just the wizard, the cleric, and the druid. I like this a lot, but I was a big fan of 3.5’s tome of battle to begin with. You even have racial powers. I’d like more of these, please. The ‘at will’, ‘per encounter’, and ‘daily’ slots are also a big plus. A+

Skills: consolidation as well as removing skill points is what I asked for, and you delivered. You even threw in skill challenges for free. However, craft and profession skills are now gone. Overall, it’s more of what I want than not. B

Races: We got some new ones, and the old ones have been polished. I usually play humans, so this one didn’t affect me a lot. A

Classes: The warlord is a great addition to the core books. The originals [fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue] really have a ‘classic’ feel to them, even with the new powers system. Well done. A++

Feats: You know, I’m not the kind of person who tries to optimize 100%, and so for a long time I didn’t know just how bad some feats were compared to others. Thankfully, the character optimization boards exist, as well as enworld. I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m glad the feats have been better balanced against each other. Good job on refining the system. A+

Equipment: I really thought that this would have been unchanged, but you surprised me! I think it’s a good change, though. The differences between weapons are a little bit more meaningful mechanically. A very nice touch. A+

Rituals: They make the game feel more like ‘old school fantasy’ to me. It also keeps a lot of magic within reach, but allows each class, like thieves unlocking doors or disarming traps, to shine. A+

Character advancement: I like that every class gets something every level. A+

DMG, P.42: If there is one thing about 4E that is the best of the best, it’s this page, and that chart in particular. That chart can enable many DMs to run games on the fly a LOT easier. Very well done! A++

Monster manual: I like that you’ve given me multiple variations of most monsters. It’s a lot like the weapons; more meaningful mechanical difference. I strongly prefer this over having to take a 3.5 monster and give it class levels. A+

Mooks: Mooks r teh r0xx0rz! No, really, this is a great idea, and I'm very glad you implemented it! A++

Errata: If it’s one thing you’ve really improved 100% on, it’s this. You’ve been keeping on top of errata like white on rice. A++

Adventures: full color, comes in a folder, separate books, and at least one battlemap; I really can't say anything bad at all about this, not even the price. Good job! A+


These are some things that I’m hopeful for:

Spelljammer + Planescape; please develop this more. I like what you’ve got, but I’d like more please.

Ravenloft + Shadowfell; please develop this more, preferably more undead and robots/golems/constructs. To me, the shadowfell is a place where the ‘not dead’, the soulless, and ‘that which mocks life’ dwell. It is a place for the ‘incomplete’, the ‘unfinished’, and I feel that ravenloft is like that, but more tragic. This is the place for the Temple of Elemental Evil (with some adventuring in the elemental chaos).

Feywild + Isle of dread; please develop this more, preferably more hollow world-like. To me, the feywild is the ‘virgin, anti-city, anti-technology world’ as well as the ‘forgotten’ world. It is a place for prehistoric life, woodsy elves, eccentric druids, and illiterate barbarians. I think that some hollow world stuff, dinosaurs and primitive people in particular, would be a great fit. Please make Isle of Dread a super mega adventure!

Dark sun; This would be a great setting to release with the psionic rules…

Greyhawk and Blackmoor; These are LEGACY, wizards. Perhaps if these were done ‘right’, some of the old guard would re-examine 4E?

Monster cards: What I’d like are basically 4E versions of the D&D minis cards. Yes, I know you have some of them on your site, but I’d like to buy a ‘monster manual I’ pack of monster cards with the artwork straight from the monster manual on one side, and the stat block and tactics on the other.

Magic item cards: similar to the monster cards, I'd like an illustration on the front, and stats on the back.

Counter sheets: I'd like sheets of cardboard counters that I can put down on battlemaps to indicate various things like doors, treasure chests, secret passages, and monsters. Kinda like what was in the 4E starter set, but purchased separate, and a lot more sheets. I'd also like a 'player's pack' that would have counters for the various conditions, hit points, initiative order, some '+1, +2, +3' counters to indicate bonuses, and counters to represent spell effects as well as cardboard cone and blast templates.

Super adventures: It looks like revenge of the giants will be the first of these; looking good so far. I’ll know more once it’s released and shipped (I already preordered it). I hope that it will be 'more complete' than expedition to undermountain and I’m very hopeful that it’s the son of the ‘g/d/q/’ series. I'm hoping there will be more...

Unearthed Arcana: I’m of the opinion that more options generally = better game, so there should be a UA4E. You could, oh….I don’t know, put craft and profession skills, ‘grim and gritty, characters aren’t as powerful’, ‘options on not using a battlemat or figures for combat’, ‘random tables for everything’, and ‘an optional 4E skill points system’ rules in it. It could have all sorts of rules for emulating prior editions using 4E…

D20 modern: I’d really like this to be based off of Star Wars Saga Edition, but different enough to justify buying it instead of just using my SWSE and d20 modern books together;[the guy in green is what I want; the other guy is what I can make with D20 modern + SWSE]
[the guy in green is what I want; the other guy is what I can make with D20 modern + SWSE].

DDI: I’m not a subscriber, but your recent release of the 1-30 level character builder has almost drawn me over. I’m very pleased about the current price compared to the original price of the DDI subscription. I’m going to wait a bit longer on this. It’s not the price that’s causing me to wait, but what I’m getting. I REALLY like physical books, pdf’s are okay.

Accessories: wizards, I’m going to tell you up front I’m not going to buy any of your new miniatures packs. Just so we’re on the level here, I want you to know I didn’t buy that many minis for 3.x. I think I bought maybe five booster packs and two starters, as well as some 'black dragon' basic boxes that were half off. They’re too expensive for me, and would eat into my book, video game, and ‘eating out’ budget. I will continue to buy your dungeon tiles, and I will probably buy your power cards though.

What I DID buy was the ‘descent: journeys into the dark’ board game, and got 61 one inch gridded dungeon tile pieces, 60 [unpainted] monster and 20 character minis, and 369 little cardboard tokens for all sorts of things, not to mention 180 cards.

I really wish you guys made a ‘super mega ultra deluxe platinum’ D&D starter set that came with multiple sets of dice, mucho minis, dungeon tiles, cardboard counters, and cards for everything instead of selling these accessories piece by piece.

I realize it would be expensive, but what was the MSRP of the three core books? How were the sales on them? If you’re going to say, and I quote from the back of open grave, “for use with these dungeons and dragons core products...D&D Miniatures…D&D dungeon tiles", and you bundle the core books together [and they sell well like that], then perhaps bundling the other core products like minis, tiles, dice, cardboard counters, and cards could also sell to the exact same target audience the three book core slipcase was marketed to? Maybe the three core slipcase sold well because of it's great value?

Finally, I want you to know that I haven’t sold off any of my 3.x books; in fact, I’ve been growing my 3.x collection rapidly. Since 4E released, prices for a lot of 3.x and OGL books have been inexpensive enough for me to pick up (anywhere in the neighborhood of 50-90% off), and I intend to keep playing 3.x. So, I guess you could say I’m not a ‘complete’ convert, but I do prefer the mechanics, presentation, and visual style of 4E.

Keep up the good work, wizards!

p.s. wizards; PLEASE get that man who's working on the GSL some assistants/interns. He sounds overworked![/sblock]

I lurv you!