D&D (2024) 4e design in 5.5e ?

[CubicsRube]

I liked the coffee analogy for what a healing surge does the best. Very relatable. If I ever pull a 4e element into an osr game that I run I'm going to make all healing coffee-based.

edit: or maybe tea-based, for what is a potion but a specific kind of tea?

It's true! I always need a cup of caffeine surge after a fight.

 

[CubicsRube]

I'd stop at the 3d20. You get one shot. Three dice.

Otherwise you're giving them in effect 6 chances to make the save rather than 3.

Yes effectively. But I'm also giving them three rounds/sequential saves. A one save or die feels a little too harsh for me.

Guess I'm a softie.

 

[billd91]

I do think 5 minute short rests in 4e were better than an hour. It worked well in the fiction where, for me, an hour often clashes.

Whereas for me, they work much better. They're a significant rest, worthy of actually regaining hit points and other short rest powers, while 5 minutes is hardly anything after life and death exertion. That was always a disconnect for me with the 5 minute/encounter rest of 4e.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I agree this is a much more reasonable statement. The argument here would be on "what is reasonable bounds", but I think this statement focuses on the understanding that balance is not "rigid" or "perfect", that it is a range.....and a game that is falling within that range must be considered balanced.

Now as to whether 5e falls within that "reasonable bound", we all of course have our table experiences to draw from. For example, I will use one of mine. Probably the closest I ever got to "truly pushing my party" was when they faced:

Party: Six 9th level PCs + one 11th level NPC cleric vs 100 githyanki archers, 10 githyanki knights, 3 githyanki battle skiffs, 1 battle barge, 1 githyanki general + 1 githyanki battle commander. Ballpark CR was 30 all said and done (and my numbers are probably a bit off I ran this about a year ago, especially the archer numbers I just remember it was quite a lot of them).

I think in 2e we would have also wiped the floor with them at that level...

So even if it is "too easy" for your tastes, it is well within the bounds of a reasonable encounter with a DnD story.
9th level PCs were top notch back then. The last level where a fighter got full hp per level, 5th level spells.

Also I am not sure if 100 Archers are really a problem because in a normal setup, not all can fire at your characters, so probably those were many smaller encounters at once. (I was not at your table, but I might be wrong here.
Also, if all fired at your group, I wonder how generously defended your characters were. Full plate? Shield spell?
How many are damage spells did you have and how many wall spells?
Even a wall of force used to divide the battlefield?
So I need to ask you:

• were powerful magic items in use?
• were your PCs "optimized" or built with a generous build method?
• did your characters rely on a few, over the top spells that won their day?

If one of your answers is yes, then the problem might lie in the fact, that the baseline suggestions are rather made with average PCs in mind...

 

[MichaelSomething]

Think PCs are too powerful? Having them roll 3d6 in order for their stats will fix that!

 

[darjr]

Think PCs are too powerful? Having them roll 3d6 in order for their stats will fix that!

Unless you're like that one person, rolled up hundreds of characters.

 

[overgeeked]

Unless you're like that one person, rolled up hundreds of characters.

They either roll in front of me or use a dice roller that tracks their rolls. Anything else doesn't count.

 

[darjr]

They either roll in front of me or use a dice roller that tracks their rolls. Anything else doesn't count.

Ha! I guess you haven't read the story? They took the weekend and hung out at a game shoppe with their DM. But yea, outlier story.

I have seen someone collect d6's and find the ones that rolled well..... but I call that cheating.

 

[overgeeked]

Ha! I guess you haven't read the story? They took the weekend and hung out at a game shoppe with their DM. But yea, outlier story.

I have seen someone collect d6's and find the ones that rolled well..... but I call that cheating.

Ah. So the DM's a pushover. Got it. You roll six times. That's it. Can't handle those scores for your character? Then you're really not going to be able to handle playing in one of my games. Bye.

 

[darjr]

Ah. So the DM's a pushover. Got it. You roll six times. That's it. Can't handle those scores for your character? Then you're really not going to be able to handle playing in one of my games. Bye.

Ugh, relax, I’m just posting I’m not challenging you or anything.