D&D (2024) 4e design in 5.5e ?

[Vaalingrade]

I think --and I can't say I know because I don't really share the mindset -- that the appeal of forced random characters is the same as it is with certain Rogue-likes: it's forcing you to make do with what you have. Some people feel a sense of accomplishment from building themselves up from nothing.

Trouble is, much like in the larger gaming community where there is often such a hew and cry about difficulty levels, that there doesn't seem to be much of a consideration that some people... don't want that, especially as the default. The attitude seems to be that players who don't want to do this stuff should 'take the medicine' and will eventually grow to love it.

 

[Lanefan]

I think --and I can't say I know because I don't really share the mindset -- that the appeal of forced random characters is the same as it is with certain Rogue-likes: it's forcing you to make do with what you have. Some people feel a sense of accomplishment from building themselves up from nothing.

Exactly; and in some ways I see D&D as a Rogue-like writ large.

 

[Mordhau]

I think --and I can't say I know because I don't really share the mindset -- that the appeal of forced random characters is the same as it is with certain Rogue-likes: it's forcing you to make do with what you have. Some people feel a sense of accomplishment from building themselves up from nothing.

Trouble is, much like in the larger gaming community where there is often such a hew and cry about difficulty levels, that there doesn't seem to be much of a consideration that some people... don't want that, especially as the default. The attitude seems to be that players who don't want to do this stuff should 'take the medicine' and will eventually grow to love it.

As always the problem is that everyone insists on being able to play the same game.

I continue to find it bizarre. New computer games aren't constrained to be built on the old Wizardry character engine.

God. I wish D&D would fracture and the fanbase become something less deeply conformist.

 

[Aldarc]

Exactly; and in some ways I see D&D as a Rogue-like writ large.

It can’t be a Rogue-like plus everything else people want D&D to be. Attitudes and approaches about the game have mostly changed. Something has to give.

 

[CubicsRube]

Is there something in particular that interests you that we could discuss in further detail?

well I don't know what i don't know really.

I get that some monsters had new changes that came about when they were bloodied. What's some examples of those that people liked? Did any have ones that would activate on death?

Apart from notation was there any big changes to some spells?

And I've heard a bit on ritual magic in 4e, but i don't get how it works.

 

[Campbell]

@Lanefan

That's not all congruent with my experience of 5e. Thanks to bounded accuracy your ability scores matter more than in pretty much any other version of the game. Having a 14 when someone else has an 18 or 20 is a pretty damn big deal in 5e. Closing that gap requires like 7-11 levels by which point most games will be finished. Having that high score also lets a player invest in feats or ability scores while you are busy trying to make up that gap.

Our group started out rolling stats and quickly moved to the standard array because there was such a large difference in effectiveness based on initial rolls. When running/playing B/X I'm 3d6 down the middle kind of guy. I also rolling in AD&D. Modern D&D is a different story. The bonuses are just too powerful.

 

[Vaalingrade]

God. I wish D&D would fracture and the fanbase become something less deeply conformist.

I honestly do to, but 'DnD' as an IP and a identity is a totem no one is willing to let go of.

Maybe we go back to D&D and AD&D.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

That’s not really true, though. Nobody ever had a problem with using a magical effect once in a combat if it was the only instance of it you had prepared. But nobody had a problem with using a magical effect more than once if you had prepared it multiple times as well. There wasn’t much of a concept of using anything just once a combat outside of a few edge cases. And that’s where we get to a lot of problems people had with the AEDU structure - it was too restrictive in its conception. A model that irritates less is one that gives you resources to spend, refreshed by rests (long/daily or short/encounter), but gives the player more free rein to spend those as they see fit.

And that was very easy to implement in 4e.

 

[Garthanos]

The attitude seems to be that players who don't want to do this stuff should 'take the medicine' and will eventually grow to love it.

Gygaxian thinking is where that came from.... you will appreciate your mage out classing everyone because they used to be incompetent... What do you mean starting at a higher level!!!! You skipped over the punishment how can you appreciate the awesome.

 

[Hussar]

Exactly; and in some ways I see D&D as a Rogue-like writ large.

This might explain a lot. I've never played a Rogue game. I vaguely remember seeing one once? It just never entered my gaming at all.

So, approaching the game from that mindset would never occur to me.