D&D 4E 4E: DM-proofing the game

Reynard

aka Ian Eller
Supporter
One of the implicit design goals of 4E seems to be to reduce the influence the DM has over the game, particularly as it relates to "fun". Now, I say "implicit" because this goal is wholly unatainable so long as there is a DM at all. Even so, there are some design decisions that can be made -- and appear to have been made -- that can attempt to ensure a more standardized experience -- a certain quality and minimum quantity of fun, if you will -- for the players.

Some of the elements that I think contribute to this implicit goal (in no particular order):

Level/Tier Based Encounter Design: The successor to the CR system, this system seems to be designed to ensure parity or balance between the PCs and their opposition even more rigidly than the CR system with the inclusion of tiered monsters. moreover, monster/encounter design has gotten a lot of attention, it seems, all with an eye toward balance.

Quests: While "Quest Cards" may be optioonal, it seems that Quests themselves are an inherent part of the rules for adventure design. What this does is clearly lay out the goals and rewards for achieving those goals at the beginning of play, thereby limiting or even eliminating DM interpretation of the players' performance as a matter of what rewards are gained.

Roles: PC roles, particularly in the sense of "minimum competency" in the role's specific field, in or out of combat, means that a party composed of the proper roles will always have the tools necessary to overcome a challenge. that is to say, if the DM also uses roles for monsters and other kinds of challenges, as has been suggested, the PCs are by default always equipped to meet the challenges head on (whatever that may mean for a particular challenge).

Magic Rings: This is a specific example of a general attitude toward codifying certain aspects of the game that were once open to DM interpretation and decision making. While all editions of the game have lobbied the DM to avoid giving PCs inordinately powerful and/or numerous items, and 3E went so far as to create quantified guidelines as to what this meant, 4E is the first edition to actively prohibit lower level PCs from using "inappropriate" iems (in this case, rings). The players, therefore, have been spared from the DM's ability to ruin the game by loading them down with too much stuff.

In general, the more codified a set of rules is and the more specific the guidelines for a greater number of aspects of play, the fewer aspects remain in the hands of the DM. of course, theoretically a DM can houserule/ignore/exclude anything her or she likes, but I think it is far more common for the DM to generally follow the rules and "fill in the gaps" with Fiat. With fewer gaps, there's then less Fiat.

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is deopendent entirely on playstyle, preference and expectations. I consider it a bad thing -- I think the game should give the DM both more powers and more responsibilites, going "backwards" away from 3E's highly structured ruleset toward earlier editions' more open rulesset. And while I do understand that bad DMs exist that use Fiat and vague rules to shine their viking hats, the answer to these DMs is simple: no players.
 

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and the drumrole please...

The biggest things on your list will probably house ruled/modified via experienced DMs for what effect they want within a day of 4E release anyways :)

Sanjay
 

StarFyre said:
The biggest things on your list will probably house ruled/modified via experienced DMs for what effect they want within a day of 4E release anyways :)

Sanjay

Whether that is true or not -- and I don't think it is for the majority of DMs -- that doesn't change the actual rules of the game and therefore doesn't change the implicit goal of "reigning in" DM fiat. Now, it is entirely possible that the DMG will contain an entire chapter devoted to houseruling and DM fiat and the like, but I somehow doubt it.
 

Honestly, any DM who is good enough not to need these restrictions and guidelines will know how and when to ignore the restrictions and guidelines. Quest Cards in particular are a useful aid to the inexperienced and an amusing but impractical idea to veterans.

In response to your commentary on roles, I don't think the game would be improved by confronting PCs with challenges they are flatly unequipped to handle. I'm sure DMs everywhere will find new and heretofore unseen ways to challenge PCs in 4e.

Haven
 


Well, Reynard, you've been beating this particular drum for a while, but, let's look at each point in order.

Reynard said:
One of the implicit design goals of 4E seems to be to reduce the influence the DM has over the game, particularly as it relates to "fun". Now, I say "implicit" because this goal is wholly unatainable so long as there is a DM at all. Even so, there are some design decisions that can be made -- and appear to have been made -- that can attempt to ensure a more standardized experience -- a certain quality and minimum quantity of fun, if you will -- for the players.

Some of the elements that I think contribute to this implicit goal (in no particular order):

Level/Tier Based Encounter Design: The successor to the CR system, this system seems to be designed to ensure parity or balance between the PCs and their opposition even more rigidly than the CR system with the inclusion of tiered monsters. moreover, monster/encounter design has gotten a lot of attention, it seems, all with an eye toward balance.

Well, considering that you don't even present CR as written, I'm not sure how to take your interpretation of the new system. CR was NEVER about ensuring parity or balance between the PC's and their opposition. The only thing CR could do was make a prediction about how difficult an encounter would be. That's all.

The whole thing about every encounter must be of an equivalent Encounter Level is actually not supported in the DMG. In fact, the DMG specifically advises that encounters should run a range of EL's from easy to impossible within a given adventure.

Why the inclusion of baseline assumptions regarding the difficulty of encounters is perceived as a straightjacket for adventure design has always been beyond me.

Quests: While "Quest Cards" may be optioonal, it seems that Quests themselves are an inherent part of the rules for adventure design. What this does is clearly lay out the goals and rewards for achieving those goals at the beginning of play, thereby limiting or even eliminating DM interpretation of the players' performance as a matter of what rewards are gained.

I suggest you reread the quest cards idea again. First off, the rewards for quests are specifically said to be the sole responsibility of the DM. Secondly, the idea of using actual cards is a suggestion, not a hard and fast rule. You are inventing issues that are not supported by what we know. Since rewards will be set by the DM, I'm not sure how the DM can be eliminated from the equation. Additionally, there is nothing preventing the DM from modifying rewards, even if they are stated up front. The reward could easily be the minimum you will receive for doing a given task. The DM could easily retain reward power for interpreting the performance of the player in this way.

Roles: PC roles, particularly in the sense of "minimum competency" in the role's specific field, in or out of combat, means that a party composed of the proper roles will always have the tools necessary to overcome a challenge. that is to say, if the DM also uses roles for monsters and other kinds of challenges, as has been suggested, the PCs are by default always equipped to meet the challenges head on (whatever that may mean for a particular challenge).

Again, you are inventing issues that don't exist.

I cannot believe that anyone would actually defend the idea that you MUST have certain classes in order for the group to function. Essentially, if you do not have basic competence spread out between classes, then you are dictating to EVERY GROUP that plays D&D that they must have certain classes or they will fail.

That's what D&D has done throughout it's history. If you don't have a healer, you fail. If you do not have a thief/rogue, you fail. If you don't have a philips screwdriver, you fail.

By allowing classes basic competence in assumed activities, while allowing certain classes to have greater expertise in various areas, you allow greater flexibility in party makeup.

Historically, you needed X Fighter types, 1 cleric, 1 wizard and 1 thief to succeed. If you didn't have those, most adventures would screw you. Either you died from traps, or you could simply not proceed because you lacked a certain class' abilities. Now, you are no longer shackled to that model.

I would think that most people would applaud greater freedom.

Magic Rings: This is a specific example of a general attitude toward codifying certain aspects of the game that were once open to DM interpretation and decision making. While all editions of the game have lobbied the DM to avoid giving PCs inordinately powerful and/or numerous items, and 3E went so far as to create quantified guidelines as to what this meant, 4E is the first edition to actively prohibit lower level PCs from using "inappropriate" iems (in this case, rings). The players, therefore, have been spared from the DM's ability to ruin the game by loading them down with too much stuff.

Actually, no it isn't. I suggest you open your 1e DMG and look at Instruments of the Bards. Right there, you have a series of magic items that are limited by level. Scrolls have always been limited by level in every edition. I don't have my books in front of me, but, I'm sure that others can find more examples of the same.

Granted, this is the first time that we've seen this for a whole class of magic items that traditionally everyone could use, but, the restrictions are not being done for the reasons you state. The restrictions are there because it adds extra granularity between the power levels of the characters.

In general, the more codified a set of rules is and the more specific the guidelines for a greater number of aspects of play, the fewer aspects remain in the hands of the DM. of course, theoretically a DM can houserule/ignore/exclude anything her or she likes, but I think it is far more common for the DM to generally follow the rules and "fill in the gaps" with Fiat. With fewer gaps, there's then less Fiat.

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is deopendent entirely on playstyle, preference and expectations. I consider it a bad thing -- I think the game should give the DM both more powers and more responsibilites, going "backwards" away from 3E's highly structured ruleset toward earlier editions' more open rulesset. And while I do understand that bad DMs exist that use Fiat and vague rules to shine their viking hats, the answer to these DMs is simple: no players.

You assumption is flawed. Power in an RPG is not a zero sum game. Giving power to the players does not take it away from the DM. OTOH, we have 20 years of evidence that assuming that DM's are all capable of crafting rules is flawed. Far and away too many problems have resulted from poor game design and leaving decisions in the hands of the DM.
 

The DM doesn't have more or less control about the game as in every other edition as he still can always rule 0.
Its just that the DM is forced to do less work (which can include rule0) when it comes to things like balance and encounter design and more work to create a "simulated world".
 

StarFyre said:
The biggest things on your list will probably house ruled/modified via experienced DMs for what effect they want within a day of 4E release anyways :)

Sanjay
That's why i dont mnd these 4e changes. Alot of them are to finally let other non-dm qualified people DM. LOL that sounds very upity, but it takes a certain caliber to be a DM and the rules in 3.5 requires that caliber to be high. With 4e and its "this is how it is approach" those dms's not comfortable with understanding how to use adventures and rewards to promote the feel of the game have a blueprint.
 


Reynard said:
One of the implicit design goals of 4E seems to be to reduce the influence the DM has over the game, particularly as it relates to "fun".

i admit that i didn't follow the debate on the new edition that closely, but... where did you get this info?!?!? if that was actually true, i would have no use for the 4e books other than levelling pieces of furniture or starting a fire...

can't it be the case that you are just reading some clues about what's happening in the wrong way?
 

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