4E DMG: No guns?!?

Well thus why I said I think firearms would be better for supplement. Hell who knows there could be such of the things you said in Adventurer's Vault as well.

I view the corebooks as the basic books, that are vague enough that is is easy to refluff and alter as you wish but have had lots of time devoted to them so it works well. Then as supplements are released that fit with your campaign-setting you add that material.
 

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I view the corebooks as the basic books, that are vague enough that is is easy to refluff and alter as you wish but have had lots of time devoted to them so it works well. Then as supplements are released that fit with your campaign-setting you add that material.

See, I think the core books should be complete -- a game you can play for years and still not exhaust the possibilities, not just interms of characters and monsters, but in terms of style of play. i'd rather see a broad, shallow core set that covers tons of ground -- like the 3.0 core set -- than a detailed but narow core set like 4E's.
 

Where are the rules for building your own traps? Where are the rules for designing your own classes or balancing powers? 4e breaks certain things down, I'll readily admit that... but it's woefully inadequate about other things, so in my mind it kinda balances out.

Traps appear to me as a combo of monster creation and the Damage/DC rules. It's not spelled out, and I'm sure it will be eventually, but there's enough to extrapolate for now.

Class and Power balance is much harder, for sure, and there isn't a chapter called Class and Power Creation. But the uniform class/power design makes it far easier to design classes than it's ever been, because at levels 1, 2, and 3, each class gets X, Y, Z, across the board.

True, not everything is explicit, but I think "woefully inadequate" is overstating the issue; if there's not a rule you can read verbatim, there are lots of examples which can be deconstructed and rebuilt with ease.

I'm pretty far off topic here, so to bring it back in somewhat, I will say that the lack of guns touches on one of the criticisms of 4e, in that a lot of basic things were not included. As I said earlier, some of these things are easy to recreate. Many are not though, and that includes things like classes (Druid? Monk? Barbarian?).

It's like having a huge box of legos; you can theoretically build anything you want, but some of us just want some freakin' directions for an airplane. 4e is a great construction set, however it just doesn't come with enough premade stuff. This will be mitigated by additional books, but if you're like me and don't plan on going too far past the core, you're either left to your own devices, or out in the cold.
 

At this point, given the current trajectory and venom of all the discussions, I am skeptical about ever seeing any rules for gun power weapons, or lasers for the matter, even in an “option” capacity.
 



I agree... see above post. Too bad Privateer Press has decided against going with 4e so far.

Yeah, it was pretty disappointing, but not unexpected. Unfortunately, it pretty much means that IKRPG is a dead system. :(

Although, truth be told, 3.5 IK rules are clunky and needs quite a bit of work. Excellent flavour, poor execution.
 
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Here's what I don't get: the notion that guns are somehow alien to the D&D milieu, that they are somehow "not fantasy", or that a D&D setting that includes guns should be non-Medieval.

News Flash! This just in: they had guns in the middle ages. They figured prominently in the Hundred Years War for example. You had cannons, hand culverins (handgonnes) and even organ (Ribaldi) guns. This wasn't some kooky pirates of the caribbean-themed war, either... it was a regular medieval war with knights and bows and Kenneth Branagh and stuff.

In fact, if you're seeing armies of massed longbows, knights prancing about in heavy plate armor and guys using fancy polearms and zweihanders... you should be seeing guns too because you're in the High Middle Ages, a time of knights and guns.
 


I guess none of you guys ever played in the Iron Kingdoms setting, guns and more gritty and grim than "gonzo".

I think they were calling the 'space marines crash landing' style of D&D gonzo rather than the inclusion of guns. Iron Kingdoms includes guns very well, in my opinion, but it has almost no sci-fi flavour.
 

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