D&D 4E 4e Heal info in new Confessions article

[Doug McCrae]

From designer notes, it sounds as though resurrection won't be common even for adventurers until Epic levels.

Wow! I'd not seen that anywhere up 'til now. That's a massive change.

 

[Greg K]

No, because its not very cinematic, and why would you keep playing if your characters die?

Assuming that was a serious question, I want my character's life at risk. If there is no risk of death, there is nothing heroic about the character and I would find the game boring.

 

[Greg K]

They're blatently NPCs

Buffy died!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wow! I'd not seen that anywhere up 'til now. That's a massive change.

Hmm. At what level was it available in 3.5? Level 15? (7th level spell, IIRC?)
If level 1-20 are stretched to level 1-30, what would we expect:
Divide by 2, multiply by 3, and what do we get: 22,5.
True Ressourection was available at 17th level, same formula gives 25,5.

So, it's definitely epic scale, the question is whether its early, middle or late epic.

 

[Lackhand]

Raise Dead is only 5th level, though: so that's 9th level, scaling to make 13.

However, I suspect you're right, Paragons and Epics cheat death: Heroes don't, not without a Hell (pun, as always, intended) of a patron.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Buffy died!

... and was raised. Twice. No real penalty for dying... And Heal checks in Buffyverse definitely can raise the dead - and it's even better then spellcasting (first death - first aid - kick ass; second death - raise dead - get angsty)

As long as ressourection is common in D&D, death is an annoyance, but not something "heroic". I have seen little death that seemed heroic in D&D. Most of them where to some monster that did incredible damage on its first attack in a surprise round, or from save or die effects. A few others came "naturally" from constant hit point loss. One was due to some stupid infestation nobody was able to heal.
Shackled City Spoiler:

The most heroic death wasn't a real one - it was the Bard willing to sacrifice himself so that

Spoiler

we could gain control of the Oxepedia (sp?) plane. He burned in flames and came back with a cool template. If my fighter hadn't been already been dead at that point, he would have done it. Chosing to die to help your friends is heroic!

 

[Khur]

I'm down, basically at death's door, yet I can find the focus to heal myself?

Your problem seems to be one of perception and trying to define abstract rules systems in concrete “this is how it looks in the world” terms. That can be difficult, and it always has been with the abstract nature of D&D hit points. With 4e, hit points and healing surges combine abstractly to define the resilience of your character. Like others have said, if you use a healing surge, it’s more like you weren’t hurt as badly as it seemed or you shook off the damage in a heroic manner. If you don’t manage to, you were hurt or at least left in a vulnerable position when it comes to the harm further hits deal. It might be a little hard to imagine in a narrative sense, but that’s not unlike D&D through the ages in any case. It certainly feels cinematic in play—more so if players use it as a roleplaying cue. It also gives each PC some control over his or her condition during combat, forcing no one PC to be the healer. That is, no one has to use all his or her actions to facilitate the fun of others by casting healing spells or using healing skills/abilities. Sure, that good cleric is still a healer, but he’s also a punisher of evildoers!

Oh, and risk of death is still out there. Ask my players, including the one who's rogue went down in the second round of combat while next to creatures that automatically deal damage to you if you stay near them. Players just have a little more control and a few extra options. Tension is actually more fun when you have choices about what to do next. At least it seems that way to me.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

You just have to keep repeating the mantra "hit point gain does not necessarily mean physical healing" to yourself.

Unless you've been using the exact opposite interpretation ever since 1e of course. Where HP damage is actual physical injury and HP gain is direct physical healing. Otherwise the various conditions would've been modeled via HP damge rather than modifiers to abilities and restrictions on action.

 

[Gundark]

Anyhow, is it even possible to pc's to die in dnd anymore?

See my sig.


On a serious note, it's pretty easy for the party to die in Star Wars Saga. I had worries about the PC being pretty death-proof. After playing about 4 session this isn't the case. No one has dies...however it's a significantly deadlier game than what I thought.

I suspect 4e to be similiar. You need to ask the question "why are they adding all this extra healing?" Probably because they need them

 

[Remathilis]

According to World & Monsters, yes.

At Hero levels; it's a lot harder than it was, but basically permanent.
At Paragon; you can get raised but it's not widely available or easy - and, mostly, unavailable to NPCs.
At Epic; it's a "speed bump".

This warms the cockles of my heart.