D&D 4E 4E in 2008? Fact or Fiction?

[Jhamin]

Ehhh...

See, I really don't buy those statements. :\

Well, "well enough" is a pretty subjective statement. We can argue about how much money D&D needs to make to be worth it.

But I'm pretty sure Hasbro didn't push out 3.5 to be cute.

They either did it to make more money or to correct serious rules imbalances. If it was the former there is no reason to believe it won't happen again. If it was the latter, then the rules arguments going on here would argue for another editon any time now.

 

[Hodgie]

Now, I never like the money reason in regards to D&D. I understand that it is expensive and that many people have obligations to where their money has to go first, but it really isn't that much. I grew up barely in middle class and my folks would have been able to afford something like this no questions asked. Sure they had to budget money, they would have had to save for a month or two to scrape together a hundred bucks... but they'll announce 4e more than a year in advance.

I don't think people complain because they _can't_ afford a new edition, it is because they don't want to pay for a new edition.

In regards to that, D&D is the cheapest hobby I've ever seen. A player should probably throw down $30 ($22 on amazon) to get the PHB and they are set. Even as a DM the core books sum to under $100 and this affords hundreds of hours of entertainment. Newer books can be purchased slowly when money is around if you care to. Additionally, I've always _liked_ buying new books. They have entertainment value in reading them, not to mention they enliven the game and provide additional hours there too.

I think people should only complain about a new edition because they haven't worn out the old one... the money argument (in my opinion) isn't very strong.

[as a final aside, I realize that some people are poorer than poor and for them the money truly isn't there. Their concerns are completely valid, but I have a hard time accepting that such a majority of gamers are destitute]

 

[Ranger REG]

They either did it to make more money or to correct serious rules imbalances. If it was the former there is no reason to believe it won't happen again. If it was the latter, then the rules arguments going on here would argue for another editon any time now.

Were there any serious rules imbalances in 3.0e? I didn't notice this while I enjoy playing the game using the ruleset.

 

[Jhamin]

Were there any serious rules imbalances in 3.0e? I didn't notice this while I enjoy playing the game using the ruleset.

I would agree with you.

Which argues for the "wanted to push sales" argument.

 

[Henry]

Were there any serious rules imbalances in 3.0e? I didn't notice this while I enjoy playing the game using the ruleset.

Nothing I couldnt have houseruled; Haste came pretty close on my hate list. After our players discovered the beauty of haste, it wasn't left untaken by a single wizard, sorcerer, or bard. Heck, anyone who wasn't a wiz, sor, or brd made searching for boots of haste first priority, it was that important. Past that, and some minor annoyance with Heal/Harm, there was nothing that was what I'd call imbalanced, just "different".

 

[NimrodvanHall]

Were there any serious rules imbalances in 3.0e? I didn't notice this while I enjoy playing the game using the ruleset.

as Henry said haste and Harm were the major issues with 3.0
That an arcane Necromancer was nigh impossible to build as opposed to a divine necromancer, is probably a flavour issue, that is mainly an AD&D leftover i have.

I myself have more issues with 3.5 than with 3.0
The main issues i have are that both the Druid and the Cleric in 3.5 are such melee power houses. Melee power houses who are frightingly effective spellcasters at the same time.
I think the "real" combat classes (fighter, barbarian, ranger and Paladin) in 3.5 are a lot better worked out than in 3.5 than in 3.0.
the Casting classes should in my opinion get a similair overhaul. with the wizard, sorcerer, cleric and druid, getting better difined roles, and statblock advancements.

back on the origional topic.
I think that at the end of this year, all books that will probably sell well for 3.5 have been published.
we than have
the core (phb, mm, dmg)
the class books. (Complete series)
the race books (with the forests and montains covered here)
the DMG accesory
the MM accesory
the terain books (for hot, cold and soaking wet)
the monster books (Draconomicin, LiberMortis, Lords of madness)
the Psionics book

The only thing i miss is a mass combat book, but WotC stated that they wont do that and a new Epic book. Epic rules are scattred over the DMG, and Complete books now.
All the important stuff is out now. And while campeign settings are Always nice, i really do not belive that Forgottenrealms, Ebberon, of whatever new setting can generate enough sales for WotC to generate enough income. When one sees that in December WotC publishes the Spell CompendiumAccessoryDungeons & DragonsMatthew Sernett, Jeff Grubb, Mike McArtor12/2005
one can see that they are already planning to sell Compilations of their own books.
I might be a pessimist, but i think 3.5 has reached the end of its lifespan.

p.s. my first post here ever!
p.p.s. i hope 4e wont come before 2008

 

[Henry]

First of all, welcome to ENWorld, or at least welcome to de-lurking status!!

The only thing i miss is a mass combat book, but WotC stated that they wont do that and a new Epic book. Epic rules are scattred over the DMG, and Complete books now.

Actually, they made a mass combat book, it just wasn't billed as such: The D&D Miniatures Handbook (Hardcover) from 2003 also had in the back a mass-battle system, based on the minis game.

 

[Ranger REG]

I would agree with you.

Which argues for the "wanted to push sales" argument.

To which I say, "you wanted to push D&D core rulebooks sales? Order up another printing run."

Leave the designers (or what's left of them since the layoffs) to come up with more ways to support the core rulebooks.

 

[Storyteller01]

See, I don't get that.

If you said "The sooner 4e comes out, the sooner I can stop buying new books," that I could understand. I might well disagree, based on the quality and nature of the new game, but I could understand.

But the notion of retiring the hobby because you don't like the latest edition, that I just don't get. Nothing they put out in the future changes what you've already got in your books. Giving up something that you're enjoying* because of a new edition isn't jaded. It's just, well, silly.

*This entire discussion does, indeed, presume that you're enjoying the game as it stands now. If you're not, there are far more immediate issues to consider than a hypothetical future edition.

I'm not for retiring my hobby (I play 3.0), but I can understand the reasoning.

I enjoyed buying new books, checking out new ideas, and hopefully implementing them IMC. It doesn't happen with an edition change this early in the game. We have to buy the core rules all over again, suffer through the new books that actually give reprinted material (plenty of the 'Complete X' PrC's were originally found in Dragon Magazine), try to convert my OGL sources to this new format (especially if they were integral to our campaign), etc. Under those circumstances, the game isn't going anywhere. It's just going through different permutations of the same material.


My milage; your varies.

Let me know if I'm wrong Ranger.

 

[Ranger REG]

We have to buy the core rules all over again,

Yeah, but so soon? There was a gap of three years between 3.0e and 3.5e. It's like buying a $90 Diablo I and then buying a $90 Diablo II thereafter. It has been my argument as to why I prefer PnP RPG over CRPG -- more bangs for your bucks -- now Hasbro/WotC management is thinking, "Gee, we should follow the same business model as CRPG. Release a new version of D&D more frequently."

Coupled with the fact that I'm so in the minority about this pay-2-play MMORPG scam -- everybody like paying the fee (duh!), I don't -- makes me wonder if everyone in the world is gullible but me.

I'm telling you, those death cults and nihilists ... they're beginning to make sense to me when it comes to the mainstream pool that his Humaniti.

You know what? I'll skip ahead and pick up 10.0e by 2009.