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4E is for casuals, D&D is d0med

Fenes

First Post
As a side note, my 3.0E campaign usually has one fight per day/game session (if it has any fight at all), so operational play already was not very important. Even less since we use an abstract ressource/wealth system. So, while I am not switching to 4E, it's not as if it would be such a shift for me.
 

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pemerton said:
Mustrum Ridcully, that was an interesting post. And it brings back fond memories of a thread that was far more than several pages long.
It must still be in the archives or the last pages...
And it was waaaaayyyyyy toooooo looooooooong...
 


jensun

First Post
hong said:
No, not really.
Personally I find it helps to think of each encounter as a different scene and go from there. I dont see myself enfocing the 5 minute rest thing at all.

New scene, encounter powers refresh.
 

BryonD

Hero
Branduil said:
This is actually the same theory a lot of people had when the Wii met its initial success. They're not looking quite like the nostradamuses they thought they were nowadays.
Well, I think for one thing, this is an example of selective memory. I don't recall any significant statements of that type from the customer base. Perhaps from competitors, but that is a vastly different issue.

For another, buying new games for the Wii is very different from buying add-ons to use with the same D&D game.

For a third, you defined the issue down to a level that now anyone can claim that anything anywhere will be a success and anyone who disagrees will be disproven by saying "well, people said the same thing about the wii". The arguement is decidedly lacking in substance.

I'd say that still being in the very month of release and seeing a rather significant fraction of buyers express "meh" or lower responses is both not a good sign for long term sustainability and also a sharp break from the Wii model.
 

Mallus

Legend
BryonD said:
I'd say that still being in the very month of release and seeing a rather significant fraction of buyers express "meh" or lower responses is both not a good sign for long term sustainability and also a sharp break from the Wii model.
I think all we've seen so far is preliminary sales data, which is very good, and anecdotal evidence in the form of messageboard chatter, which is insignificant.

As for the Wii model, my anecdotal evidence tells me most Wii buyers stop using theirs after a few weeks, which, again, hasn't had much in the way of correlation with the Wii's success.
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Mallus said:
I think all we've seen so far is preliminary sales data, which is very good, and anecdotal evidence in the form of messageboard chatter, which is insignificant.

As for the Wii model, my anecdotal evidence tells me most Wii buyers stop using theirs after a few weeks, which, again, hasn't had much in the way of correlation with the Wii's success.

Anecdotal evidence, as we know, is just that...anecdotal. The Wii was supposed to be a fad and is constantly trumpeted as such by its opponents. We're nearly two years post-release and you still can't always walk into a store and buy one. The Wii's attachment rate (that is, the number that indicates how many games a console owner purchases after buying the console) has stayed slightly above the PS3 and below the 360...although these numbers increase and even out over time.

The Wii's overall attachment rate is roughly 5.6 games per unit, as opposed to the PS3's 5. The 360 is averaging roughly 8 (but with a year's head start, that's not as impressive as it sounds). Over the holidays, the Wii had a very strong season, with an 8.1 attachment rate at Gamestop. Over the year, however, they dropped significantly. All these numbers don't include the Wii Fit numbers, but do include SOME of the GTA numbers.

What this works out to is that SOME folks who bought the Wii tend to let is gather dust...while others keep playing it constantly. Stated another way: as 03/2008, the Wii had sold 148 million games (with 22 million sellers), the PS3 had sold 71 million games (with 7 million sellers) and the Xbox 360 had sold an unknown amount of games (with 28 million sellers). The numbers don't reflect the inclusion of Wii Fit, but do include GTA IV in the million-seller categories.

What this tells is that the PS3 is having a hard-go of it. It's got a low attachment rate AND low console sales compared to it's competitors. The Wii has a low attachment rate, but with the most consoles sold, that shows that some gamers buy lots of games for it and some buy very few. The 360 has the highest attach rate, showing it has a loyal fanbase...but only second place in overall sales.

So using the Wii as a model to compare 4e against is not a simple one-to-one comparison, as in many ways their situations are very, very different.
 

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