D&D 4E 4e - Is it really D&D Yet?

[DandD]

So, we should ignore things that are actually factually wrong, like GURPS being a d20 system?

But, let's look at the OP's post shall we? It's got every flashbutton catchphrase you could ask for:

• the 4e rules don’t “feel” like D&D anymore. - Oh look, "It's not D&D anymore"
• If I wanted that, World of Warcraft is out there for me to play. - Oh look, the obligatory comparison to videogames.
• Where is the individuality of I’m the only elf wizard with this magic item - Oh look, 4e kills RP.
• Okay, how is this quicker? - Oh look, standard line about how play is actually going to be slower at the table.
• Those that have played D&D using 2nd, 3rd, and 3.5, were not impressed with the changes. - Oh look, appeal to the masses.
• There is tons of material content available, and with Paizo - Oh look, invoking 3rd party publishers, because, y'know, they're just better.

Sorry, I don't believe for one second that this is a totally new poster who has never seen the boards before. Far and away too many convenient references in there for that.

Nice try though.

/edit - Just thought of it. He did miss one button though. There is no obligatory food analogy. /hong.

Hehehe. Yeah, right, every bad and refuted point has been listed. I guess the 3.X-only-enthusiasts will try such tactics time and time again, creating the illusion as if there really were enough people for 3.X.

 

[Wystan]

So, we should ignore things that are actually factually wrong, like GURPS being a d20 system?

But, let's look at the OP's post shall we? It's got every flashbutton catchphrase you could ask for:

• the 4e rules don’t “feel” like D&D anymore. - Oh look, "It's not D&D anymore"
• If I wanted that, World of Warcraft is out there for me to play. - Oh look, the obligatory comparison to videogames.
• Where is the individuality of I’m the only elf wizard with this magic item - Oh look, 4e kills RP.
• Okay, how is this quicker? - Oh look, standard line about how play is actually going to be slower at the table.
• Those that have played D&D using 2nd, 3rd, and 3.5, were not impressed with the changes. - Oh look, appeal to the masses.
• There is tons of material content available, and with Paizo - Oh look, invoking 3rd party publishers, because, y'know, they're just better.

Sorry, I don't believe for one second that this is a totally new poster who has never seen the boards before. Far and away too many convenient references in there for that.

Nice try though.

/edit - Just thought of it. He did miss one button though. There is no obligatory food analogy. /hong.

My first thought on reading this was "How convenient that a 'New' poster seems to effectively use all the phrases that seem to be used to press hot buttons." I have to say that I have seen a slight increase of new posters to ENWorld lately and most of them seem to be negative to 4th Edition.

As I have said before:

1. I have played RPG's since I was 13 (1986)
2. I played OD&D, 1st Ed., 2nd Ed., Skills and Powers, 3rd Ed., 3.5 Ed.
3. I have played Many Many other systems.
4. I will buy 4th Ed. and devour it
5. I will probably still play 3.5 as my group is still in a campaign arc and seems to not be nearing an end
6. I will hope to run/play 4th Edition when I can

(As a side note, I had more fun playing the 1st Level Eladrin Ranger than I did playing my 12th Level Human Scout in my normal 3.5 game. I felt I had more options and could actually do more. It took a level of fighter and a greatsword proficiency for me to start having fun with my scout. - I annoy the Dwarven fighter now as I do 5d6+6 on an attack with Skirmish Damage)

 

[Umbran]

Sorry, I don't believe for one second that this is a totally new poster who has never seen the boards before. Far and away too many convenient references in there for that.

Nice try though.

You realize, that if this person is on the up-and-up, you have just made a major insult? You realize that if this is a troll, you still haven't helped anything?

Folks, if you think you have a troll on your hands, report it, or ignore it. Getting accusative is not constructive. Getting combative is doing what a troll wants you to do. Trolls exist to stir up bad feelings.

The Golden Rule - use it or lose it. That goes for everyone here.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Unfortunately, you have now made yourself a target for fanbois who will happily nitpick every sentence in your post to prove you are wrong. While I am still undecided about 4e, many of the people here will straight up attack you for even hinting it is not the perfect game. Even though none of us know the full rules, yet.

So unlike the earlier posters who engaged with BeerWolf on a pretty reasonable level, you take a drive-by threadcrap opportunity to insult as many people who like 4e as possible, as well as by implication those who have been engaging in conversation earlier in the thread.

Yours is the first "straight up attack" in this thread and if I see this behaviour again you will be suspended. Before you press 'submit reply' please check for 'unnecessary attitude' in what you've written first.

This goes for anyone else who is happy to shoot first at "the other side".

Feel free to email me if this isn't clear.

 

[eleran]

If you've hung around ENWorld or the WotC forums during 2006 and the early part of 2007, the power of players over DMs in 3e has been a consistent forum topic, because in the previous edition the power of players has increased along with the more consistent and encompassing rules.

Concurrent with it has been the difficulty of DMing higher level encounters, giving rise to DMs often giving their players more jobs to do in helping him keep track of all the statuses, hit point damage, etc. on the monsters. Habits can be hard to break. I know for myself, I let the players help me keep track of spell durations, hit point damage accumulations, etc. on the monsters by slipping scrap paper chits under the monster minis, because this helps us both when more than five or six monsters are on the table.

Yeah, I have noticed that. I didn't hang out in the forums during those times, but I am starting to see some of that in other posts. What amazes me i think is the number of people who seem ok with the DM having been relegated to 3rd class citizen status.

Myself, I haven't DMed 3.5 in over 18 months because I found it completely untolerable to my preferred playstyle. I have been playing during that time and we seldom run a campaign past 10-12th level because the game just seems untenable starting about that point.

 

[Mistwell]

1) Beerwolf is a cool name, as is your Avatar.
2) Three mod warnings in this thread (to different people) in such a short period of time is friggen impressive!

 

[Wormwood]

Three mod warnings in this thread (to different people) in such a short period of time is friggen impressive!

"Forget it, Jake. It's 4eTown"

 

[eleran]

Hey Wormy! 'Sup wit' the new avatar? Where does one lay their hands on such a fine item?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't think 4E is really "D&D" to me. D&D-like? Sure. D&D-ish? Yeah. D&D setting? Yah. But then, you can play GURPS with a D&D setting (and even D&D monsters), or BESM, or whatever. Unless the setting/monsters/style is what makes it D&D alone (without the rules), that doesn't make it D&D.

However, that doesn't mean I dislike it or won't buying it. Just, if I was, for some reason obsessed with playing "D&D", I wouldn't be using 4E. For me, 4E looks to be "New Exciting Fantasy Game that is guaranteed to be well-supported and not about wierd superhuman dudes explaining to us how Qin Shihuangdi sucked" (looking at you, Exalted). So I'm still excited for 4E at this stage. I'm just not excited "for D&D". YMWV.

 

[Wormwood]

Hey Wormy! 'Sup wit' the new avatar? Where does one lay their hands on such a fine item?

I just whipped it up in a moment of fanboish glee.